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Thread: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

  1. #111
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    1. WMD program (it turned out Saddam was faking it).
    2. Violation of 17 Ch7 UNSCRs
    3. Put an end to Saddam's genocidal reign.
    4. Stabilize the region by ending Saddam's aggressive wars.
    5. Liberate the people of Iraq.

    2, 3, 4 and 5 were the only important reasons for me.
    6. Send a strong message to the Saudis that playing both ends of the field was no longer going to be tolerated.

  2. #112
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It seems you've lost the conversation. RDS claimed it was all about terrorism, in reference to Iraq (Abu Ghraib).
    That's clearly BS.
    There's no indication of "all" afaict.

    also
    Iirc, Wolfowitz said that when they were brainstorming about how to sell the war to the American electorate. And the threat of WMD attacks was cited as a necessary requirement to get the public on board.
    Terrorist attack is a quintessential reason why we decided to go. Without that threat, the electorate would not have been as likely to have backed the war.

    It's not an inaccurate claim that the US went into Iraq to fight terrorism.
    I may be wrong.

  3. #113
    global liberation

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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    6. Send a strong message to the Saudis that playing both ends of the field was no longer going to be tolerated.
    There were a lot of reasons and a lot of accomplishments. Pretending it was all about terrorism and that a jail break means nothing was accomplished is clearly ridiculous, intellectually dishonest and detrimental to ones credibility.

  4. #114
    global liberation

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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    There's no indication of "all" afaict.
    Of course there is:

    Quote Originally Posted by RDS View Post
    With the jail break can I say the 10 years and trillions spent on wars to tackle terrorism came to noughts?
    That's an absolute (bold) based on the premise (underlined). Would you like a link to an English class?

  5. #115
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Of course there is:
    That's an absolute (bold) based on the premise (underlined).
    That's not accurate. First, we didn't spend trillions. So obviously, that's a generalization, hyperbole, or some other rhetorical device.
    Spending money to fight terrorism does not exclude being able to spend money on other things. Therefore, saying that we spent money to fight terrorism does not exclude spending money to do something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Would you like a link to an English class?
    Yes, please. I would like 17 links, please. Only .edu sites though.
    I may be wrong.

  6. #116
    global liberation

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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    That's not accurate. First, we didn't spend trillions. So obviously, that's a generalization, hyperbole, or some other rhetorical device.
    Spending money to fight terrorism does not exclude being able to spend money on other things. Therefore, saying that we spent money to fight terrorism does not exclude spending money to do something else.

    He meant trillions:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financi...f_the_Iraq_War
    Not obviously "a generalization, hyperbole, or some other rhetorical device." So, now your premise is false.

    Do you propose that the "10 years" was also "a generalization, hyperbole or other rhetorical device"?


    "to tackle terrorism" is an exclusive premise.
    "came to noughts" is an absolute excluding other objectives.

    He's clearly claiming that the jail break means nothing was accomplished, based on the false premise that it was all about terrorism.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-24-13 at 02:16 PM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    "to tackle terrorism" is an exclusive premise.
    "came to noughts" is an absolute excluding other objectives.
    That is a novel interpretation.
    I may be wrong.

  8. #118
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    "to tackle terrorism" is an exclusive premise.
    You should prob'ly explain how fighting terrorism excludes the possibility of having other goals. That is not exactly clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    He's clearly claiming that the jail break means nothing was accomplished, based on the false premise that it was all about terrorism.
    I can't really speak to what the thoughts of RDS are.
    But the text presented ties the "trillions" which "came to naught" to fighting terrorism. There's nothing textually which excludes the possibility that other objectives were concurrently pursued.


    ...

    And, still, the threat of terrorist attack originating in Iraq was the indispensable reason why Americans decided it was acceptable to go to war. Iirc, the Bush Admin even sought to conflate the concepts of pre-emptive and preventive war to help sell the war. We, as a nation, went to war with Iraq to protect and defend ourselves from WMD attack.
    I may be wrong.

  9. #119
    global liberation

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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    I can't really speak to what the thoughts of RDS are.
    That's not necessary, his words are simple and easily interpreted.


    But the text presented ties the "trillions" which "came to naught" to fighting terrorism. There's nothing textually which excludes the possibility that other objectives were concurrently pursued.
    The 10 years and trillions is attributed to "tackling terrorism" at the omission of other objectives and the absolute of "came to noughts" clearly excludes other objectives.

  10. #120
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    Re: Jail break at Abu Ghraib

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's not necessary, his words are simple and easily interpreted.
    If they're so easily interpreted, why are you getting it wrong? ; )

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    ...the absolute of "came to noughts" clearly excludes other objectives.
    Inigo Montoya has a message for you.
    Came to naught just means that the money was wasted. It doesn't speak to any exclusivity.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Came...hrome&ie=UTF-8


    Obviously, ymmv.
    I may be wrong.

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