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Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

haymarket said:
Yeah - one never knows when British King George will rise from the grave and tax tea again causing Yankee Doodle to have to pawn his tri-cornered hat. :roll:;):lamo
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He didn't tax as much as the present government does, and the people were more free as well.
 
Fletch said:
Wow. What crawled up your ass? You made an unfounded assumption and don't like being challenged, I guess. I simply offered another possible explanation and you go berserk. I suspect that if you look at average annual income in Mississippi and compare that to California, you will find a big difference. That difference will be reflected in tax revenue. If the average Mississippian earns 30,000 and the average Californian 50,000, tax revenues from Mississippi will be lower per person. So it stands to reason that all things being equal, Mississippi will get more back per taxpayer. Now, try to address that without going ballistic. If you can.
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and again, you offer nothing to show us why red republican states require higher federal subsidy than blue states, if the republicans are to be found better fiscal managers
you won't because you can't
the only thing you can do is attempt to deflect
 
justabubba said:
and again, you offer nothing to show us why red republican states require higher federal subsidy than blue states, if the republicans are to be found better fiscal managers
you won't because you can't
the only thing you can do is attempt to deflect
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There hasn't been republican leadership in Detroit since the early 60s...you can't deflect that.
 
mac said:
There hasn't been republican leadership in Detroit since the early 60s...you can't deflect that.
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Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
 
haymarket said:
Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
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I agree with you that partisan dynamics (separate from the issue of mismanagement/dysfunctional governance) played an insignificant role in Detroit's fiscal crisis. Over the decades, Detroit's city governments adopted policies (including, but not limited to, benefits) that became increasingly incompatible with the structural realities Detroit was facing. As the population underwent a dramatic and chronic decline, the city became less and less able to function effectively and its commitments grew heavier. Political dysfunction and mismanagement amplified those problems, but the structural changes created the problems.
 
Fenton said:
LOL !!!

Wow, it's people like that twisted b**** that allowed Detroit to be put in this position in the first place.

I wonder where she thinks the money going to come from to shore up these unfunded pensions ?

Maybe she should chip in.
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Perhaps the judge read the Michigan Constitution?

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
 
haymarket said:
Perhaps the judge read the Michigan Constitution?

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
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That's nice but there is no money. The contractual obligation was impaired by lousy management. I guess they should be passing a hat among the city fathers that voted in that constitution.
 
haymarket said:
Perhaps the judge read the Michigan Constitution?

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
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The entire point of filing bankruptcy in the first place is to break contractual obligation.

Just sayin...
 
haymarket said:
Perhaps the judge read the Michigan
Constitution?

STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
§ 24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.
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Yes yes I've read that, post it repeatedly but unless that Constitution can print money all your'e doing is repeating yourself.

Detroit is the end result of the Liberal process, and its not alone by any stretch.

It just going to be one in a long line of Cities that head into bankruptcy due to mismanagement and is the end result of the Liberal Democrat Process.
 
fmw said:
That's nice but there is no money. The contractual obligation was impaired by lousy management. I guess they should be passing a hat among the city fathers that voted in that constitution.
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The pensions would be backed by the State of Michigan. And they are NOT in danger of bankruptcy.
 
mac said:
There hasn't been republican leadership in Detroit since the early 60s...you can't deflect that.
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what i can do is offer the facts
and the facts show us that red/republican states require more federal subsidy than blue/demo states
showing us that demo governments are more fiscally responsible than republican governments
like the other fellow who keeps insisting otherwise, i also offer you the opportunity to prove my facts wrong
or to explain why those facts do not indicate republican dominated states to be less fiscally responsible
 
Fenton said:
Yes yes I've read that, post it repeatedly but unless that Constitution can print money all your'e doing is repeating yourself.

Detroit is the end result of the Liberal process, and its not alone by any stretch.

It just going to be one in a long line of Cities that head into bankruptcy due to mismanagement and is the end result of the Liberal Democrat Process.
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How was the destruction of the manufacturing sector, the businesses and jobs that came with it, and the racial divide in the city part of THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PROCESS?
 
haymarket said:
The pensions would be backed by the State of Michigan. And they are NOT in danger of bankruptcy.
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No kidding? The state has agreed to cosign for city pension funds?
 
Jack Fabulous said:
The entire point of filing bankruptcy in the first place is to break contractual obligation.

Just sayin...
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By attempting to violate the very Constitution of the State of Michigan and the obligations therein? That is astounding.
 
fmw said:
No kidding? The state has agreed to cosign for city pension funds?
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They already have effectively done that by adopting the Constitution as shown. And that was done in 1963.

Or if you do not like that interpretation, the only other one is that it forbids pensions to be part of a city bankruptcy.

Either way, pensions are sacred in this state.
 
shrubnose said:
That's basically what the US government gave the Social Security Administration when congress folded all of the Social Security cash in with all of the other US assets and spent it on fighting wars and etc.

Of course the old folks might get their pensions eventually if the USA doesn't file for bankruptcy.
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I'm pretty sure that's the first post of yours I've read that I agree with.
 
haymarket said:
By attempting to violate the very Constitution of the State of Michigan and the obligations therein? That is astounding.
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Hahaha!! Since when have you ever cared about something like that?
 
Henrin said:
Hahaha!! Since when have you ever cared about something like that?
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I have no idea what you are laughing about?

Do you and can you explain it or do we have to settle for the usual cryptic drive by attack without explanation and devoid of any intellectual substance or evidence?
 
Fenton said:
Yes yes I've read that, post it repeatedly but unless that Constitution can print money all your'e doing is repeating yourself.

Detroit is the end result of the Liberal process, and its not alone by any stretch.

It just going to be one in a long line of Cities that head into bankruptcy due to mismanagement and is the end result of the Liberal Democrat Process.
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then by acknowledging you ARE familiar with that provision of the state's constitution, you should then also recognize the state judge had a compelling reason to rule as she did
so why the reich wing outrage over her obviously appropriate determination of fact
or is it that your side would simply prefer to **** on the facts when they intrude on your ideology?
 
Heebie Jeebie said:
Who knew it was Unconstitutional to go broke!
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Oh you can still file for bankruptcy and free yourself from lots of obligations. Just not public pensions. Perhaps this should be known as LIMITED GOVERNMENT?
 
haymarket said:
I have no idea what you are laughing about?

Do you and can you explain it or do we have to settle for the usual cryptic drive by attack without explanation and devoid of any intellectual substance or evidence?
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When are you going to start caring for the second amendment as much as you care about a ponzi scheme based entirely on theft from the people being part of a state constitution? Just wondering is all.
 
haymarket said:
Oh you can still file for bankruptcy and free yourself from lots of obligations. Just not public pensions. Perhaps this should be known as LIMITED GOVERNMENT?
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Public pensions part of limited government? :lamo Stop using words you don't understand.
 
haymarket said:
How was the destruction of the
manufacturing sector, the businesses and jobs that came with it, and the racial divide in the city part of THE LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PROCESS?
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Are you kidding ?? People moved out to the Suburbs for a REASON, Manufacturing moved out of the City for a REASON.

How could you even ask about the racial divide aspect of Detroits issues when we've been barraged by race baiters from the left for the last few weeks ?

Detroit, when it should of been adapting to a ever changing bussiness environment, and that happens in every State and City, chose to dig in it's heals and live in the past. It chose to strengthen it's public sector while it drove out it's private sector and chose to placate to the Unions.

Hell, that Liberal ideology 101 and the crux of Obama's current economic policy. Grow Government, sell votes whether you can afford it or not.

Detroits only one of many Liberal Cities that are headed for bankruptcy. You watch.
Consequences of letting the least of us define our future.
 
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