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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nothing in those links provides any substantiation for the claims

    There is nothing there that supports those allegations.

    But feel free to now actually quote from these links and tell us how they support the claim that unions got everything they asked for and the city government gave unions everything they asked for so they could stay in office.

    I welcome seeing that evidence.
    They were obviously given more than the city could afford. Or don't you even agree with that? Do you just continue to blame mismanagement by city officials? You know, the city officials that the unions supported for years?
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Balls View Post
    Detroit should serve as a small scale model to the entire US government spending. Eventually it all collapses due to improper management, pocketing money, taking bribes, etc. So it took about 50-60 years for Detroit to collapse. The question is when do we start the clock on the US government?
    If your comparison is accurate , the following things would have to happen:

    1- 60% of people will move out of the USA.
    2- the main businesses in the USA would also have to move out
    3- the majority of jobs in the USA would have to be lost
    4- the tax base in the USA would have to decrease by 2/3 of what it is now

    When those things happen, you will have a solid comparison.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Nothing in those links provides any substantiation for the claims



    There is nothing there that supports those allegations.

    But feel free to now actually quote from these links and tell us how they support the claim that unions got everything they asked for and the city government gave unions everything they asked for so they could stay in office.

    I welcome seeing that evidence.
    Perhaps YOU can enlighten us as to how Detroit is in the predicament it is in?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    But they won't shoot it and move on. So how does one resurrect a dying city?
    You really can't. Everything that made Detroit a city is gone. Unless they can attract industry and taxpayers, there really isn't anything that can be done. It was an experiment that failed. Move on.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    They were obviously given more than the city could afford. Or don't you even agree with that? Do you just continue to blame mismanagement by city officials? You know, the city officials that the unions supported for years?
    So lets start out with first things first Maggie. The contention that unions got everything they wanted is clearly BS.

    Agreed?

    The contention that the city gave them everything they wanted so they could stay in office and win elections is also clearly BS.

    Agreed?
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So lets start out with first things first Maggie. The contention that unions got everything they wanted is clearly BS.

    Agreed?

    The contention that the city gave them everything they wanted so they could stay in office and win elections is also clearly BS.

    Agreed?
    I'll agree with both of those things in fact. Negotiating always demands that we ask for more than we expect.

    In spirit? I agree with Woodman.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    Perhaps YOU can enlighten us as to how Detroit is in the predicament it is in?
    It has been well documented.

    In the last half century Detroit has lost well more than half of its population. 1.8 million down to just a tad over 700,000. The population that remains tends to be much more lower income than the population was in 1950 - its high point of 1.8 million residents.

    Detroit lost much of its tax base when not only these residents left but the businesses which employed hundreds of thousands of Detroit's left also.

    The poor who remained absorbed a higher percentage of city revenues than the previous population had.

    This is no secret.

    http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...did-it-happen#


    WHY DID IT HAPPEN?

    It took decades of decay to bring down the once-mighty industrial giant that put the world on wheels. The city grew to 1.8 million people in the 1950s, luring them with plentiful jobs that paid good wages to stamp out automobiles for sale across the globe. But like many American cities, Detroit's fall began late that decade as developers starting building suburbs. Then came the 1967 riots that accelerated the number of white residents who moved to the cities north of Eight Mile Road, considered the region's racial dividing line.

    At the same time, auto companies began opening plants in other cities, and the rise of autos imported from Japan started to cut the size of the U.S. auto industry. Detroit's property values fell, tax revenue dropped, police couldn't control a growing murder rate and many middle-class blacks fled the city for safer suburbs with better schools. By 2009, the auto industry collapsed along with the economy as a whole, eventually pulling down the city with it. Government corruption under former Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick made things worse.

    DID THE AUTO INDUSTRY'S FALL DRAG DOWN DETROIT?

    It's a big factor. The city is littered with abandoned factories built in the postwar boom years, most of which have multiple stories. As the Japanese auto invasion began cutting into Detroit's sales, General Motors, Chrysler, Ford and hundreds of auto parts companies looked outside the city to build one-story plants that could handle modern assembly lines. With every downturn, more companies abandoned the city, leaving the hulking buildings to squatters. Detroit's tax base continued to erode. By the time the auto industry melted down in 2009, only a few factories from GM and Chrysler were left. GM is the only one with headquarters in Detroit, though it has huge research and testing centers with thousands of jobs outside the city.
    btw - Crain's is a pro business rather conservative publication.

    and more if you need it on the racial factors that contributed to the heavy population loss

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...y.html?hpid=z1
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-20-13 at 10:34 AM.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    don't we owe the people who worked all their life, a pension? or do we give them a iou?
    We? Neither you or I are citizens of Detroit nor their elected representatives.

    So no, I don't owe the people the city of Detroit promised pensions to jack ****, and neither do you.

    These ridiculous pension plans are part of why all these cities and states in the North are doing so poorly budget-wise, and something's gotta give.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It has been well documented.

    In the last half century Detroit has lost well more than half of its population. 1.8 million down to just a tad over 700,000. The population that remains tends to be much more lower income than the population was in 1950 - its high point of 1.8 million residents.

    Detroit lost much of its tax base when not only these residents left but the businesses which employed hundreds of thousands of Detroit's left also.

    The poor who remained absorbed a higher percentage of city revenues than the previous population had.

    This is no secret.

    Detroit in bankruptcy: How did it happen? | Crain's Detroit Business




    btw - Crain's is a pro business rather conservative publication.

    and more if you need it

    Detroit’s demise was decades in the making - The Washington Post
    Hay- it is my understanding that Detroit is making somewhat of a comeback. Young people seem to want urban settings. Better for the environment, less commuting time, shops, theater etc.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It has been well documented.

    In the last half century Detroit has lost well more than half of its population. 1.8 million down to just a tad over 700,000. The population that remains tends to be much more lower income than the population was in 1950 - its high point of 1.8 million residents.

    Detroit lost much of its tax base when not only these residents left but the businesses which employed hundreds of thousands of Detroit's left also.

    The poor who remained absorbed a higher percentage of city revenues than the previous population had.

    This is no secret.
    What you have said is certainly true. But that is not all there is to consider.

    There is intense discussion that Detroit owes a large amount in pensions and other retirement benefits, hence contributing to their decision to declare bankruptcy. Why , during this exodus of people moving out of the city, did the city government take steps to reduce their liability for these expenses? Why did they not push back hard against the unions? Why did they spend $100 more than they took in? Can you honestly say the unions are not contributors to this terrible situation?
    Last edited by Woodman909; 07-20-13 at 10:36 AM. Reason: spelling

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