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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    You probably believe that governments should be restrained in their actions and activities by written Constitutions. For some here that is pretty extreme.
    Yeah... you got me.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Detroit was destroyed by liberalism. People left because they could. They voted against the taxes and regulations with their feet.

    You have identified the symptoms. What is the root cause of this disaster? I believe it was government actions, public sector unions and regulations including federal regulations. Detroit was just the most spectacular failure. Expect to see more.

    The US is in a worse situation. It is hard to leave. It iis hard to succeed under the growing heavy hand of government.

    We saw the Soviet Union fail, almost overnight. Near the end it will go very quickly. How much longer do we have? I suppose that depends on what we do and who does it. I will continue to fight, of course, but I do not believe it will be a positive outcome.
    I'm not suggesting that policy didn't play a role, but suboptimal policy amplified the impact of growing structural headwinds. Such headwinds included the relative decline of U.S. manufacturing, the rise of an increasingly knowledge-based economy, etc. Advances that facilitated global trade, capital flows, information flows, and transporation of goods eroded the competitive advantages that were once leveraged by Detroit. At the same time chronic underinvestment in education coupled with a migration of Detroit's educated populace created a dramatic educational attainment gap. That gap has left Detroit with an abnormally large labor pool that is insufficiently skilled for today's economy, meaning that Detroit suffers from a larger degree of structural unemployment. Even if taxes and regulations were eliminated, yes eliminated altogether, health service providers, software development/engineering firms, financial services providers, professional services firms (law, accounting, consulting, etc.), among others, would not suddenly start hiring Detroit's unemployed in large numbers. Those firms depend on highly-skilled workers.

    If one is looking for some empirical research concerning structural factors that helped drive Detroit's decay, which ultimately led to its current fiscal crisis, one such paper can be found here:

    http://www.nber.org/papers/w13710.pdf

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    When the Ponzi Scheme begins to collapse during a down economy, Katy!! Bar the door!!
    Quote Originally Posted by John Kenneth Galbraith, "The Great Crash 1929", Published 1954

    "..At any given time there exists an inventory of undisclosed embezzlement.
    This inventory - it should perhaps be called the bezzle - amounts at any moment to many millions of dollars.
    In good times people are relaxed, trusting, and money is plentiful. ... Under these circumstances the rate of embezzlement grows, the rate of discovery falls off, and the bezzle increases rapidly.
    In depression all this is reversed. ... Just as the (stock market boom) accelerated the rate of growth (of embezzlement), so the crash enormously advanced the rate of discovery.".."
    Quote Originally Posted by Warren Buffet
    "You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out."
    Both quotes here:
    Jim Randel: Finding the Bezzle
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    anon

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    Excellent!!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    It was absolutely scandalous. I read an article yesterday which outlined some of the bad investments made with those pension funds. Among them were investments in development projects within the city that are now defunct. Imagine the cronyism involved with that process! City councilman gives his contractor buddy a giant contract to build "something". Buddy gets paid, councilman gets reelected, the "something" that was built is now worthless, and the pension fund is now out a couple of million bucks. The people put in charge of managing these funds also used a bogus model to project their future value. They "assumed" an 8% annual gain and then used that figure to claim that funding rates were upwards of 80% when they were really about 40% or lower.

    I do feel for the pensioners that are going to get shafted by this but you are absolutely right. People need to go to jail. What happened to Detroit is a crime.
    That same sort of crony capitalism has been going on in Washington for several years but, like Detroit, the people continue to elect these corrupt sob's. So who is at fault? The crooks? Or is it those who buy into the ideology and elect them not because of their character but because of party affiliation? It is said that people get the government they deserve, and that appears to be true.

    The problem seems to be that Americans are spending like they are rich, that it is still what it once was, that being a world leader is a natural birthright. But the money is no longer there. It is the brokest nation in the history of the world and with almost 50%of the people receiving money from the government there is no end in sight, except something similar to Detroit.

    There should be sympathy for those Americans who worked hard and voted for politicians who might have done the right thing but the good will go down with the bad. And the most corrupt will still have their homes and penthouses in gated communities throughout the country, while those who voted for them will suffer the most.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    YOu confuse me with somebody who cares about the opinion of somebody on the far right fringe of extremism.
    This is the typical response of a committed Leftist. When reality interferes with their economic whimsies it is called "right wing" or, worse in their myopic eyes the ultimate insult, 'far right wing". That's as far as their imagination extends.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    At the rate we are moving toward a mix of fascism and socialism how much longer do you think it will take? Tyranny is already here. And it grows every day.
    new rule define socialism.jpg
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What funds?
    municipal tax revenues

    or do you allow yourself to believe detroit collects no tax revenues
    should you choose to look, the revenues are far greater than the amount needed to sustain the pension plans
    leaving a remainderman to be used to pay other obligations

    where did all the wingers get the inaccurate belief that bankrupt debtors have NO money
    they usually have some
    just not enough to cover their current debt
    and the bankruptcy judge makes a determination how those assets will be applied to satisfy all creditors
    and in this instance the pensioners are telling the court that their pensions are protected by the state constitution
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is the typical response of a committed Leftist. When reality interferes with their economic whimsies it is called "right wing" or, worse in their myopic eyes the ultimate insult, 'far right wing". That's as far as their imagination extends.
    We have seen a great deal of right wing bluff and bluster on this issue. It right here in this forum for all to see. Identifying it is only proper.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Detroit was destroyed by liberalism. People left because they could. They voted against the taxes and regulations with their feet.
    Earlier in this thread I provided a great amount of verifiable evidence showing that while the TAX RATE in Detroit is high the actual tax paid is rather low because the homes are valued at such low levels compared to the suburbs around it. Because of that reality, Detroiters who do move to the suburbs as you suggest - voting with their feet - are almost always voting themselves a TAX INCREASE in doing so. One can get a three bedroom home in Detroit for under $10,000.00. There are some available for as little as $2,500.00 and that is an intact home. Just cross the line into Dearborn or Southfield and you will expect to many many times that for the same size home. Because you are now paying five to ten times as much for the home, even if your tax rate is half of that in the city, you still end up paying a great deal more in taxes due to the home value differences.

    You are right that people did vote with their feet by leaving Detroit. However, it had precious little to do with liberalism or taxation since they normally moved to Wayne County suburbs where the people in charge were also Democrats and the taxes ended up even more than they were paying.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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