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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post

    Detroit offers some lessons related to the depletion of human capital (population decline + departure of highly educated persons + failure of schools to regenerate human capital) in which the environment became inhospitable to economic activity, that decline in economic activity fueled significant socioeconomic problems, public finances deteriorated to the point where basic services were no longer provided effectively, all of which further compounded Detroit's problems.

    The U.S. as a whole does not face such a dire problem anytime soon. It does risk a continued erosion of its competitiveness on account of the stagnation of its educational attainment and emergent gap with OECD countries. Some of this gap is already being reflected in early indications that the rate of U.S. innovation is slowing, which means diminished long-run growth potential. The U.S. still has broad flexibility to address its major problems, as well as the capacity to make necessary investments. Hence, a decline is not inevitable. There is an alternative path. However, a continuation of political dysfunction will plant the U.S. on a less than optimal path, as the changing world requires more than the status quo (the default policy from political dysfunction).
    Detroit was destroyed by liberalism. People left because they could. They voted against the taxes and regulations with their feet.

    You have identified the symptoms. What is the root cause of this disaster? I believe it was government actions, public sector unions and regulations including federal regulations. Detroit was just the most spectacular failure. Expect to see more.

    The US is in a worse situation. It is hard to leave. It iis hard to succeed under the growing heavy hand of government.

    We saw the Soviet Union fail, almost overnight. Near the end it will go very quickly. How much longer do we have? I suppose that depends on what we do and who does it. I will continue to fight, of course, but I do not believe it will be a positive outcome.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This is not a tax or regulatory problem. Its high crime, lack of basic services, enormous educational attainment gap that has created a largely uncompetitive labor pool, and other socioeconomic problems make it highly unattractive. Companies will not hire workers who cannot perform even if they paid no taxes, because they need to provide value in a competitive marketplace. Companies won't operate where their employees and assets are endangered on account of a lack of basic services e.g., effective law enforcement.
    You are looking at symptoms. I am looking for root causes. Of course businesses would flock there. Just wipe out the regulation-tyranny and the oppressive tax regime.

    Does that scare you? It would clearly show just how bankrupt liberalism is, wouldn't it?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Yesterday and also today, I made some references to Detroit's huge educational attainment gap, which has essentially left the city with a disproportionately uncompetitive labor pool. I also pointed out the strong indirect relationship between educational attainment and unemployment in the BLS's monthly employment situation reports. I've made the same point elsewhere.

    I was informed that at least one conservative sees a similar picture. After searching for the piece, I found a blog entry by former Heritage Foundation President Edwin Feulner. In part, he wrote:

    [/I]

    He goes on to cite some outcomes from statewide referenda that could, in his opinion, be helpful to Detroit.

    Several points:

    1. Feulner demonstrates that not every conservative embraces the narrative that Detroit's fiscal catastrophe is a consequence of partisan governance.

    2. He shows a big picture understanding of the relationship between education-employment-outcomes (parenthetical note: his no longer serving as Heritage's President is a loss for the organization, both in terms of a loss of intellectual gravitas and ability to communicate coherent conservative viewpoints). This understanding almost certainly is shared beyond ideological lines and it is one area on which a coherent recovery framework would need to be developed if Detroit is to replenish its devastating loss of human capital so as to return to a growth trajectory (in terms of economic activity, socioeconomic indicators, etc.).

    3. It would be interesting to learn more about teacher compensation in Detroit: Did the compensation reflect a risk premium of sorts to induce people to teach in Detroit's schools, were they the result of collective bargaining agreements that were increasingly disconnected from outcomes, were other factors involved?

    4. The impact of the referenda outcomes he cites would depend on the factors that led to teacher compensation being what it is. If a risk premium is involved, the referenda outcomes would have little impact. If there were a fundamental disconnect between teacher compensation and outcomes at the school system level, it might offer some benefit (but empirical evidence related to reduced collective bargaining regarding salaries and also organizational outcomes is still very limited, so a large dose of caution is required).
    I can hardly wait to see you explain away the next bankruptcy. And the next. And the next. And the next...

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I can hardly wait to see you explain away the next bankruptcy. And the next. And the next. And the next...
    When the Ponzi Scheme begins to collapse during a down economy, Katy!! Bar the door!!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    When the Ponzi Scheme begins to collapse during a down economy, Katy!! Bar the door!!
    Yes. Buy weapons and ammunition. You are going to need them.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no.the MI constitution does not say any of that. read the damn provision. it's been posted earlier in this thread

    what that constitutional language says is that the pensions cannot be diminished while adhering to the state's constitution
    that's what it says

    now how to do that
    don't diminish the pension benefits

    which means just that. there are funds to be applied to outstanding debts. apply them here. then take the rest and pay the indebtedness that remains, pennies on the dollar to secured creditors. unsecured creditors ... sorry about that
    What funds?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no.the MI constitution does not say any of that. read the damn provision. it's been posted earlier in this thread

    what that constitutional language says is that the pensions cannot be diminished while adhering to the state's constitution
    that's what it says

    now how to do that
    don't diminish the pension benefits

    which means just that. there are funds to be applied to outstanding debts. apply them here. then take the rest and pay the indebtedness that remains, pennies on the dollar to secured creditors. unsecured creditors ... sorry about that
    What funds?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    Sure, you can frame things any way you want to. Just don't be surprised when I don't participate.
    YOu confuse me with somebody who cares about the opinion of somebody on the far right fringe of extremism.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    YOu confuse me with somebody who cares about the opinion of somebody on the far right fringe of extremism.
    I would be fascinated to see what you can produce that would give ANYONE the idea that I am a far right extremist.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    I would be fascinated to see what you can produce that would give ANYONE the idea that I am a far right extremist.
    You probably believe that governments should be restrained in their actions and activities by written Constitutions. For some here that is pretty extreme.

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