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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the reich wing position that red states and their republican dominated governments are more financially astute is proven wrong by the facts
    those red states require a substantially greater federal subsidy than the demo dominated blue states
    and the reason is that republican politicians are ****ty at fiscal policy
    The facts are not on your side. California Goes Bankrupt - Reason.com

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you have only proven that, like most libertarians, you have zero knowledge of basic economics

    many of us have worked for a wage and the guaranty of a pension upon completion of a certain number of years working. often, the wage is at less than market rates, recognizing that the future pension benefit compensates for the diminished immediate wage income. pay me some now, and the rest later

    its stunning how little about real life economics escapes people on this forum; most frequently by those who (pre)tend to espouse fiscally conservative leanings
    It seems to me what you're saying deals with the agreement you made with your employer and since we are dealing with government workers there is no such thing as "market rates" for the work completed. In fact, in many areas there isn't even a comparison to be made. At the point the pension starts to be taken out pensioners are getting payment for doing nothing and the agreement to take less while working has no effect on this.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    That's right. There is LOTS of money, just not enough to pay all the debts. That same understanding of economics applies to the Federal Government as well.
    duh!
    when a debtor is without the means to pay their just financial obligations, then bankruptcy provisions are established just for such a circumstance

    here is a clue - one lost on many others, too - the chapter 9 bankruptcy rules are already established, for instances such as this

    such need for a municipality to file for bankruptcy was anticipated

    and in bankruptcy actions, there are different tiers of creditors. THAT is what this is about

    and if the provisions of the STATE constitution stand up in a FEDERAL bankruptcy court, the pensioners owed their retirement income by the city of detroit will receive their payments in full

    and if there is not enough money to pay every other creditor in full - as is expected - some (probably most) of them will have to settle for pennies on the dollar. unsecured creditors will probably not receive those pennies

    now come back and make another stupid post that does not advance this debate an iota; it has now become an expected "feature"
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    It seems to me what you're saying deals with the agreement you made with your employer and since we are dealing with government workers there is no such thing as "market rates" for the work completed. In fact, in many areas there isn't even a comparison to be made. At the point the pension starts to be taken out pensioners are getting payment for doing nothing and the agreement to take less while working has no effect on this.
    i am a federal retiree
    i was a government worker
    what i said applies to federal and many state and municipal workers, who agreed to accept less than comparable market rate pay today for a better retirement tomorrow

    try again. you will need a much better argument than the one i just flushed
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    please try to read for understanding

    the state's constitution established provisions on behalf of its citizens.

    can you grasp that? if not, pose a question describing what you do not understand
    I understand it perfectly. The people must all pay higher taxes so people on their pension can do squat and still get paid. This arrangement is part of the states constitution putting a constitutional obligation on the people to pay the pensions of others.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am a federal retiree
    i was a government worker
    what i said applies to federal and many state and municipal workers, who agreed to accept less than comparable market rate pay today for a better retirement tomorrow

    try again. you will need a much better argument than the one i just flushed
    And your point is?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I understand it perfectly.
    it is obvious that you do not

    The people must all pay higher taxes so people on their pension can do squat and still get paid. This arrangement is part of the states constitution putting a constitutional obligation on the people to pay the pensions of others.
    no, the government workers agree to a compensation package. one that accepts often less than market wages today for a pension benefit that will be due upon fulfilling the requirements to become vested in the retirement system

    now, prudent fiscal policy would tell the government leaders that the appropriate thing to then do is place the wage savings into a sinking fund to cover future retirement costs

    but too many states and municipalities - like detroit - underfunded the retirement system to cover those pension payments when they became due

    which is why the state's constitutional provision is so prescient. it is intended to prevent the pensioner from being hurt by such poor fiscal governance as is evident in detroit
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    And your point is?
    that your rebuttal was entirely wrong
    pity i needed to explain the obvious
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    it is obvious that you do not


    no, the government workers agree to a compensation package. one that accepts often less than market wages today for a pension benefit that will be due upon fulfilling the requirements to become vested in the retirement system

    now, prudent fiscal policy would tell the government leaders that the appropriate thing to then do is place the wage savings into a sinking fund to cover future retirement costs

    but too many states and municipalities - like detroit - underfunded the retirement system to cover those pension payments when they became due

    which is why the state's constitutional provision is so prescient. it is intended to prevent the pensioner from being hurt by such poor fiscal governance as is evident in detroit
    You already made this argument. It's not convincing and it does not work as a rebuttal towards mine.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that your rebuttal was entirely wrong
    pity i needed to explain the obvious
    It doesn't matter if you are a federal retiree
    It doesn't matter if you were a government worker
    It doesn't matter if it applies to federal and many state and municipal workers.
    I'm well aware of the arrangement made and describing it does not warrant it's existence.

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