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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I'm not saying that there hasn't been corruption. Indeed, corruption is being investigated with regard to some of the pension funds.

    Detroit emergency manager launches pension corruption probe | Reuters

    My point is that this fiscal crisis is much more than a matter of corruption. Corruption exacerbated Detroit's challenges, but the challenges had their roots beyond corruption e.g., dramatic population decline, particularly better educated persons.
    Yes, it's corruption, but it's corruption supported by an ideological electorate who are as intellectually corrupt as those who have raped the economy..

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

    But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

    1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
    2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

    It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
    Why does this sound a lot like blame Bush for the mess that was inherited, but never mind that was not simply a couple of years ago, but 50 years ago. You needed that race card in the deck, that surely explains the lack of accounting skills to see this comming and make necessary adjustments. When the rats are fleeing the sinking ship it might be wise to see to the leak; actually, in Detroit's case, it was more like the rats stayed but the crew fled.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-23-13 at 01:03 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why does this sound a lot like blame Bush for the mess that was inherited, but never mind that was not simply a couple of years ago, but 50 years ago. You to have that race card in the deck, that surely explains the lack of accounting skills to see this comming and make necessary adjustments. When the rats are fleeing the sinking ship it might be wise to see to the leak; actually, in Detroit's case, it was more like the rats stayed but the crew fled.
    Democrats have controlled the city for over half a century but it's still the fault of the Republicans. It's this sort of muddled ideological thinking that killed Detroit and why the country itself is now in decline.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which still doesn't change the reality that THERE IS NO MONEY!

    When are you going to get that through your head?
    there is LOTS of money
    just not enough to pay all the debts
    so bankruptcy is the way to determine who gets paid and who does not get paid in full
    and according to the state's constitution, the pensioners will get paid in full
    those not protected by constitutional provisions - not so much. they will get what ever is left to divide for themselves
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely. Every single ounce of my retirement planning is being done with the notion that my government pention will not actually occur. If it ends up still being something that is supported by the time I retire...excellent, bonus. But I'm RESPONSABLE enough and REALISTIC enough to understand that banking on being paid in perpetuity while I don't do a damn thing is a dumb exercise and not one I plan to partake in.

    As a kid in his mid to late 20's I was already working with my wife in planning how we were going about planning for our retirement, and we're doing it without any expectation of my government pension. To me, that pension is a gamble just like any other form of retirement...not something I'm guaranteed.
    since we have devolved the debate to the sharing of personal anecdotes, here is mine
    in the tenth year of my retirement; while i do a lot of things, some of them to earn a supplemental income, nothing is required for me to receive my monthly check
    defined retirement pension
    at age 60, expect to draw it for many more years ... plus social security @age 65

    so, if you work for a ****ty organization, your fear is rational
    if not, then not
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    there is LOTS of money
    just not enough to pay all the debts
    so bankruptcy is the way to determine who gets paid and who does not get paid in full
    and according to the state's constitution, the pensioners will get paid in full
    those not protected by constitutional provisions - not so much. they will get what ever is left to divide for themselves
    That's right. There is LOTS of money, just not enough to pay all the debts. That same understanding of economics applies to the Federal Government as well.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    States cannot print money, they are subject to the same forces as a business or a city. Or were you not aware of that?
    this is a STUPID argument
    no bankrupt debtor can print money
    but they still extinguish debt thru bankruptcy
    and in the bankruptcy court certain creditors are paid what they are due - in full - from what monies are available to the debtor
    'and those that don't will receive whatever is left, if any
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    How many of them are declaring bankruptcy following a 50 year shutout of the opposing party?
    the reich wing position that red states and their republican dominated governments are more financially astute is proven wrong by the facts
    those red states require a substantially greater federal subsidy than the demo dominated blue states
    and the reason is that republican politicians are ****ty at fiscal policy
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why would I hide it? What part of libertarian are you not grasping?



    Yes, I'm saying having pensions is a bad thing. Why would I propose a better system to provide for those that aren't providing me a service? That makes no sense.



    How much can sweat from a brow buy? Is anyone in the market for sweat, and if so, would you actually want to do business with someone like that? Seriously though, I have no reason to accept the idea that I have to pay someone when they doing nothing. The years that they did provide me a service I paid them and now that is over there is no reason for me to continue to pay them. I have no reason to care for obligations made by the government they made to people at my expense.

    you have only proven that, like most libertarians, you have zero knowledge of basic economics

    many of us have worked for a wage and the guaranty of a pension upon completion of a certain number of years working. often, the wage is at less than market rates, recognizing that the future pension benefit compensates for the diminished immediate wage income. pay me some now, and the rest later

    its stunning how little about real life economics escapes people on this forum; most frequently by those who (pre)tend to espouse fiscally conservative leanings
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

  10. #430
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So a constitution should place obligations on the people and not just the government? Is that what you're saying?
    please try to read for understanding

    the state's constitution established provisions on behalf of its citizens.

    can you grasp that? if not, pose a question describing what you do not understand
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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