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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    so, you could care less about it
    i could give a **** what you care about


    that the city is insolvent does NOT mean it is without the means to cover these pension obligations
    it just means that those pension obligations will be paid first from the available monies
    only then can whatever remains be used to pay other creditors
    they will take a larger haircut so that the pensioners - consistent with the state constitution - take none
    didn't any wingers study economics of civics? why so much ignorance about that which should be found basic?
    Exactly. It is rather shocking to see those on the right go to such great lengths to express their contempt for the working person.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Life is a risk. You risk when you put money in a private fund, you risk when you trust a government to follow through with a promise. They lose, so freaking what. That's what they get for electing idiots over and over. Deal with it, just like the private sector does.
    Absolutely. Every single ounce of my retirement planning is being done with the notion that my government pention will not actually occur. If it ends up still being something that is supported by the time I retire...excellent, bonus. But I'm RESPONSABLE enough and REALISTIC enough to understand that banking on being paid in perpetuity while I don't do a damn thing is a dumb exercise and not one I plan to partake in.

    As a kid in his mid to late 20's I was already working with my wife in planning how we were going about planning for our retirement, and we're doing it without any expectation of my government pension. To me, that pension is a gamble just like any other form of retirement...not something I'm guaranteed.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I work for the state. Do you know something that I do not know about this possibility?
    States cannot print money, they are subject to the same forces as a business or a city. Or were you not aware of that?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

    But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

    1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
    2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

    It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
    Yeah, that's rediculous. You are going to basically fall back on the "inherited a mess" mantra and claim that two Mayors, over 50 years ago, created a mess that 50+ years of Democrats couldn't fix? Laughable.

    Also laughable is that 50 plus years of Democrats couldn't prepare for the steady decline that was ongoing. As far as "deeply ingrained racial problems" the majority of those Democrats in power were African-Americans. Are you claiming that they're racists?
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what i can do is offer the facts
    and the facts show us that red/republican states require more federal subsidy than blue/demo states
    showing us that demo governments are more fiscally responsible than republican governments
    like the other fellow who keeps insisting otherwise, i also offer you the opportunity to prove my facts wrong
    or to explain why those facts do not indicate republican dominated states to be less fiscally responsible
    How many of them are declaring bankruptcy following a 50 year shutout of the opposing party?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you make such a good point

    NOT!

    Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In | Mother Jones

    if those republican states are so fiscally responsible, why do they require a larger federal subsidy than the democrat dominated states?
    maybe you can specify for us what exactly these "federal subsidies" are.
    if you are successful, you'll be the very first person to ever do so.... to a person, everyone who has ever spouted this "statistic" has failed to specify, including the person who came up with the "statistic" in the first place.

    good luck...

    while you are at it, can you explain what in the wide wide world of sports this has to do with Detroit?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    you make such a good point

    NOT!

    Most Red States Take More Money From Washington Than They Put In | Mother Jones

    if those republican states are so fiscally responsible, why do they require a larger federal subsidy than the democrat dominated states?
    Really?

    Compare Spending By State for 2013 - Charts
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Well, well, well... corruption and mishandling of Detroit pension funds is contributing to the fiasco? Say it ain't so!

    The American Spectator : The Spectacle Blog : Detroit's Bankruptcy and Public-Sector Pensions


    Authorities have been looking into the Detroit pension funds for years and have already charged city and union officials, and investment advisers, with fraud. While the city is responsible for the funds, day-to-day control lies with others. “Much of the money was managed by people who had no business managing it,” said one adviser to the city.
    Mr Orr and his advisers claim that about 30 per cent of the investments in the general fund fall into the category of “other” – riskier, less transparent – investments, and include real estate transactions and development deals in Detroit itself that lacked sufficient oversight and vetting from professional investment advisers.

    Such projects included funding for unprofitable real estate developments and Tradewinds Airlines, a US cargo airline, which is now defunct and lost all its value two years ago, Mr Orr told the Financial Times.
    Hmmm.... so city officials take money from the pension fund and "invest" it with their cronies. Money is lost because of these bad "investments" but no one realizes it until it is too late because they are using an unrealistic model to calculate future gains. Great. The cities pension fund is drastically underfunded because of corruption and mismanagement and it's the bond holders that are the bad guys that should expect nothing and like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    States cannot print money, they are subject to the same forces as a business or a city. Or were you not aware of that?
    That I knew. I was speaking about your mentioning of a possible state bankruptcy proceeding.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

    But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

    1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
    2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

    It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
    Detroit has had a Democrat in the Mayor's office since January 2, 1962. That's 51 years! Your 2 points are also gross misrepresentations. Detroit has suffered from corruption and financial mismanagement for decades. They put all of their eggs in one basket with the auto industry and they lacked any vision what so ever once it became clear that the auto industry could not carry their water. Bringing up two republican governors from more than half a century ago is just plain hackery... and really, REALLY stupid hackery at that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.

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