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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.

    But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:

    1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
    2 - deeply ingrained racial problems

    It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
    You have referenced racial problems a number of times. What would those problems be and in what way are they ingrained?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Just guessing but I would interpret it as referring to the state pension funds. What if the state were to go bankrupt? Would the US constitution make the federal government cosign for the funds? There have to be consequences for mismanagement whether in business or in government. We can't allow managers to do whatever they feel like doing, fail and then be bailed out. I would support completing the bankruptcy and then turning the city over to the employees for a few years. Let them do what is necessary to improve things and protect their pension. They have the real incentive. Then, when things settle down, they can have elections and do a better job of demanding performance from those they elect. The citizens share in the failure for electing incompetents and letting them practice their incompetence without interference.

    Caveat: The citizens of Detroit elected a school board president who is functionally illiterate.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    just more mindless diversion
    employed when they are losing the debate
    Explain to me how putting obligations on the people in a constitution is a good thing. Please explain to me how obligating the people to pay for workers that are retired can possibly be seen as anything short of corruption. Go ahead, please. I'll wait.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    What's astounding is that you've argued so vigorously on these very forums about how the U.S. Constitution is so living and open to interpretation. But oh boy touch your pet issues and suddenly it's incomprehensible? *eating popcorn*

    If there ever was an issue with government corruption this is a great, tragic, example. You can't legislate that taxpayers ensure your political cronies have ZERO risk in the economy on taxpayer subsidized rates and investments for their entire life. Democrats have been using government to collect taxes and redistribute to their operatives and base for decades, it's the old tried and true liberal political machine. That it lasts as long as it does is a testament to how good you guys are at ****ing over the rest of us, no doubt...you should be applauded for that. But the music as others pointed out, eventually stops.

    The public workers are just as much a victim here as the taxpayers, let's not lose sight of that. You and your ilk have sold them what you should never have tried to sell them, because it was not yours to begin with. They were suckered by that tried and true political propaganda and now they have to bear that burden.
    yet another extreme perspective
    a rant which tells us he would similarly object to federal bankruptcy rules which provides wage earners a super-priority
    how dare the government look after the common citizen when it could instead be using its authority to vest corporations with more advantages
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Perhaps the judge read the Michigan Constitution?

    STATE CONSTITUTION (EXCERPT) CONSTITUTION OF MICHIGAN OF 1963
    24 Public pension plans and retirement systems, obligation.
    Sec. 24. The accrued financial benefits of each pension plan and retirement system of the state and its political subdivisions shall be a contractual obligation thereof which shall not be diminished or impaired thereby.



    The way pensions are backed up in the USA we might all be chipping in, whether we like it or not.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    yet another extreme perspective
    a rant which tells us he would similarly object to federal bankruptcy rules which provides wage earners a super-priority
    how dare the government look after the common citizen when it could instead be using its authority to vest corporations with more advantages
    How dare they do either.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here is a hint
    obviously you need it
    this means that within the bankruptcy, the pensioners cannot be compelled to take a financial haircut
    not true of other creditors
    I can see that if they are State pensioners but aren't most City pensioners?
    There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences.
    P. J. O'Rourke

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Explain to me how putting obligations on the people in a constitution is a good thing. Please explain to me how obligating the people to pay for workers that are retired can possibly be seen as anything short of corruption. Go ahead, please. I'll wait.
    it's always a good thing for the state to put its citizens first
    which illustrates the difference of the beliefs of democrats and republicans
    republicans will use government authority to provide corporate interests with imbalanced advantages
    in this instance, paying investors before the payment of retirement benefits to those who actually exerted while on the job
    fortunately, the state anticipated this inclination and mandated in its constitution that no body can dissipate the pension claim of a pensioner
    so, when the assets are apportioned based on the claims of the claimants in bankruptcy, the pensioners will be first in line
    if the money exists to pay any creditor, the pensioners will be first in line to receive it
    NOT bond holders
    obvious why the wingers hate that
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Heebie Jeebie View Post
    I can see that if they are State pensioners but aren't most City pensioners?
    they are STATE citizens
    the state constitution does not just protect the interests of detroit residents
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How dare they do either.

    this is why the libertarian party gets no traction among the voters
    they are inclined to **** on the common citizen ... on stand around playing pocket pool when some other entity does
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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