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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Assuming the retiree pays taxes, they will also contribute to cleaning up the mess that they too did not cause. It's not really a "us" against "them" argument since both parties are not at fault and will pay for someone else's mess.
    Paying taxes out of your tax payer funded pension check isn't really, "paying taxes". It's nothing more than recycling money.

    However, taking money out of my pocket to pay for governmental screw ups is wrong. Basically, it's not my problem. I have my own bills to pay and shouldn't be forced to pay someone else's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Paying taxes out of your tax payer funded pension check isn't really, "paying taxes". It's nothing more than recycling money.

    However, taking money out of my pocket to pay for governmental screw ups is wrong. Basically, it's not my problem. I have my own bills to pay and shouldn't be forced to pay someone else's.
    There just might be an island or two for sale in the Pacific where you can officially cancel your obligations to society and your fellow Americans.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Paying taxes out of your tax payer funded pension check isn't really, "paying taxes". It's nothing more than recycling money.

    However, taking money out of my pocket to pay for governmental screw ups is wrong. Basically, it's not my problem. I have my own bills to pay and shouldn't be forced to pay someone else's.
    That makes no sense. Public sector workers pay taxes too. The same taxes you do. Automatically equating government mistakes to people who are public sector workers is a logical fallacy.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There just might be an island or two for sale in the Pacific where you can officially cancel your obligations to society and your fellow Americans.
    How am I obligated to take food off my table and lower my standard of living to correct someone else's mistakes?

    I didn't go to work for and support a corrupt and failed system. I didn't see you, or any other Libbo, mailing me a check when The One shut down drilling in the GOM, killing my small business; so don't give me that bull****, when it's YOU who chooses when, who and what to be obligated to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The rub, of course, is that then the ever dwindling number of Detroit taxpayers must pay, not only for their current city services, but double that, in order to pay for those that "screwed up" long before them, thus increasing the rate of exodus from that city. In order to recover, Detriot must keep its taxation rates competittive with (or below) those of surrounding areas, to both keep its current residents/businesses and to attract new ones.

    What is likley to occur is that these big, blue, disasterously mismanaged cities, that have colluded with public worker unions for decades, will get "bailed out" by mooching off of other taxpayers that were not responsible, thus rewarding failure and setting a terrible precedent that it is OK to do just as Detriot did - live for today and let others pay back that debt as they collect their "legally obtained", yet unfunded, cushy lifetime pensions.
    I can't argue with the points you've presented, but it doesn't change how I feel about retired people who are living on a pension they earned legally and fully. The problem lies with a government that didn't fully fund their obligations under the plan they approved and deferred contributions until better days that never came.

    I don't know what part of the $18 billion debt Detroit has that is pension related or even if the pension shortfalls are included in that number. Those currently receiving a pension, however, would be my first priority in any bankruptcy settlement going forward.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    the city of detroit has faces a population decline since 1950,has had numerous companies go out of business post ww2 due to competition from the govt protected big 3,such as nash studebaker etc.

    many also left detroit due to the fact detroit didnt meet their manufacturing needs.white people were leaving the city in record numbers since the 50's,1967 just saw the absolute peak of it and the mass exodus.


    overall though if a city has had a declining population since the 50's,why the hell would they keep increasing spending if their tax base has shrunk every year for over 60 years straight,its like they kept hoping for a miracle,and straight up ignored the fact they created their own mess.
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    So when Govt really blows it badly, you say they should pay out anyway? Where specifically is the money supposed to come from?
    Governments are chosen by the people, so taxes will have to pay for part of it (the rest can come from, for example, selling land etc.)
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That makes no sense. Public sector workers pay taxes too. The same taxes you do.
    No, not the same taxes I pay. The "taxes" that are held out of a government worker's check, is government money anyway. The government is simply keeping their money and calling it taxes; that money isn't "new" revenue like my tax money is.

    Automatically equating government mistakes to people who are public sector workers is a logical fallacy.
    I didn't blame the public sector workers. They're just doing a job. I'll never fault a man for going to work; no matter who he works for.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Someone is going to lose out; the retirees, or the tax payers. Why should the tax payers get screwed for someone else's mistake, just so some guy can sit on his ass and keep collecting his pension. Oh, and don't get me started on lazy ass municipal workers, that may not have necessarily earned it.
    Sorry, I'm the type of person who believes in honoring commitments. And I'm not a person who would be able to tell a 65, 75, 85 yr old man or woman that the pension they've been surviving on is now going to disappear. Call it whatever you want, it is what it is.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    I am talking in general, governments shouldn't be able to declare bankruptcy IMHO, of course there is a legal way to or else Detroit would not have filed for it, but morally I think it is the wrong message to send to citizens and other local governments alike.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

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