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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    You are misconstruing what I wrote. I did not write anything about how much governments spend, I only said that governments cannot cop out by declaring bankruptcy, if someone does business with a local, state or national government they deserve payment in full and not be short changed by the government declaring bankruptcy.

    Governments should not live beyond their means but putting the heads of that government for 10 years in jail is ridiculous. Who says that head is responsible for the bankruptcy? Or do you want to put every politician/official in jail who contributed to that bankruptcy?

    Governments should live within their means, tax and spend is fine by me as long as there is a mandate by the voters to do so but only if the money spent and the taxes/income of the government are balanced or that the tax/income is higher than the money spent.
    So when Govt really blows it badly, you say they should pay out anyway? Where specifically is the money supposed to come from?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Balls View Post
    Detroit should serve as a small scale model to the entire US government spending. Eventually it all collapses due to improper management, pocketing money, taking bribes, etc. So it took about 50-60 years for Detroit to collapse. The question is when do we start the clock on the US government?
    The clock started ticking when Congress approved deficit spending, followed by repeated increases in the debt ceiling.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Ruined a city? What nonsense.

    Why do you continue to beat the stupid political drum of blaming the Democratic Party when the real factors of Detroit's decline have nothing to do with who was the mayor and what his party was? btw - not to blow your mind with reality or anything - but the elections for mayor of Detroit are NON PARTISAN.
    So, are you suggesting that the people--politicians--that were running the city aren't responsible for the city going bankrupt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    You are incorrect. The majority of pension are paid through the employee and the investment return, and not by the taxpayer. As a matter of fact, contribution plans may be more expensive to the taxpayer than defined plans.
    Again, you cannot see the forest because of all those darn trees in the way. The gov't employee is paid 100% by the taxpayer - just what "contribution" can that gov't employee make without using taxpayer provided funds? Spin it any way that you like to, but every dime in your gov't take home pay and every dime in you gov't retirement fund is supplied by the taxpayer; the ONLY exception is from any investment yield when the retirement funds are invested, which may or may not be positive.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    Governments cannot declare bankruptcy IMHO, governments should always pay their way. If a company goes into business with individuals and/or companies he knows he always runs the risk of not getting paid due to bankruptcy risks, but a company should always be able to count on getting paid by government in any shape or form.

    Governments have to pay their way, always and in all situations and not weasel out by declaring bankruptcy.
    here you go, peter:
    11 USC Chapter 9 - ADJUSTMENT OF DEBTS OF A MUNICIPALITY | Title 11 - Bankruptcy | U.S. Code | LII / Legal Information Institute
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Again, you cannot see the forest because of all those darn trees in the way. The gov't employee is paid 100% by the taxpayer - just what "contribution" can that gov't employee make without using taxpayer provided funds? Spin it any way that you like to, but every dime in your gov't take home pay and every dime in you gov't retirement fund is supplied by the taxpayer; the ONLY exception is from any investment yield when the retirement funds are invested, which may or may not be positive.
    Yes, my pay is through the taxpayer. I take part of that pay and put it toward retirement. That is the responsible thing to do. It is also known when my pay is negotiated. Not sure what that has to so with allowing public employees a retirement they can count on instead of relying on a crap shot.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    I don't need a weather report to know it's raining, I can just look out the window.
    then you should know the position that unions are the underlying reason for this bankruptcy filing - is all wet
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    then you should know the position that unions are the underlying reason for this bankruptcy filing - is all wet
    "all wet..." Imaginative, I'll give you that. I did not say unions were the ONLY reason, I said they contributed to the situation.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yes, I think you would be hard pressed to find a private place of business that offers a defined benefit plan. Once upon a time, many did. Public workers are/were offered that also. Now that the private sector has gutted all those protections and shifted its risk onto its employees, I suppose the argument becomes why not do that to public workers too? I mean the "a rising tide lifts all boats" was merely rhetoric feed to a populace too ______ to see that the opposite was happening right under their nose. Now we fight for race to the bottom policy because I suppose a sinking ship is each for their own and only the strong survive. Very few are fighting to make this country strong again. It's a shame.
    My argument wasn't so much what the actual pension benefits were but how they are treated legally - public sector pensions seem to be protected, and from what you post, private sector pensions were or are not. It doesn't seem constitutional that you could have two groups of employees treated differently under the law. I'm not advocating at all a race to the bottom, just seeking clarification.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    So, are you suggesting that the people--politicians--that were running the city aren't responsible for the city going bankrupt?
    I do not suggest. I states quite clearly that the two major factors were economic and racial. I also stated quite clearly that the city fathers did indeed make some choices that contributed to the demise of the city. But again, the two main factors have been detailed and evidence supplied.
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