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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

  1. #131
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    typical Democrat.. despite utterly ruling a city, lock stock and barrel, for 50+ years.. you want to blame Republicans..
    I am NOT blaming any party. I specifically stated that there is no party to blame since Detroits problems are economic and racial and not first political.

    Do you comprehend that?

    I also said that if anyone wants to push the right wing meme that it is all the Democrats fault, sorry to rain on your parade of partisan hate, but the facts do not support that. Detroit began its slide from 1950 to 61with two mayors who were Republicans. They saw the loss of 10% of the population.

    So get off the high political horse.

    know you have a habit if ignoring my words... but it gets tiresome having to correct you.
    You have not yet corrected me of one thing so I have no idea what you are tired from.



    I have specifically said i like Detroit....I'll give you not liking Democrats, though....you claiming I hate Detroit is false.. it's a lie.
    You confuse me with somebody who cares about your personal feelings. All I am interested in is facts - not your emotions.



    but then again, you probably weren't talking about me when you spewed off the same old " far right wing" bull**** you always pull... as i'm not far right wing, or even near right wing.
    for the hundredth time, on a left right scale, I consistently and historically fall in the center...I'm not the bogey man you continually pretend I am.

    well, that's not true, to you authoritarians, left or right wing... I am most certainly the bogeyman.


    Yeah - I get it .... I'm a libertarian and that makes me special. yeah I get it.
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  2. #132
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    It sounds like you are saying that government has a green light to happily live far outside their means, mismanage their finances and tax/spend to oblivion. In other words, not be responsible for being stupid. I think governments should also have the right to declare bankruptcy, but it should be followed by requirements of the heads of whatever state to spend 10 yrs in prison right in there with the general prison population. Not in the tennis club confinements these types typically get. This predicament is the result of liberal government practices... give the whiners what they want , tax the people who work for a living to death and party hardy into the night.
    You are misconstruing what I wrote. I did not write anything about how much governments spend, I only said that governments cannot cop out by declaring bankruptcy, if someone does business with a local, state or national government they deserve payment in full and not be short changed by the government declaring bankruptcy.

    Governments should not live beyond their means but putting the heads of that government for 10 years in jail is ridiculous. Who says that head is responsible for the bankruptcy? Or do you want to put every politician/official in jail who contributed to that bankruptcy?

    Governments should live within their means, tax and spend is fine by me as long as there is a mandate by the voters to do so but only if the money spent and the taxes/income of the government are balanced or that the tax/income is higher than the money spent.
    Former military man (and now babysitter of Donald Trump) John Kelly, is a big loud lying empty barrel!

  3. #133
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Do you believe that guarantee under the Michigan State Constitution would stand a US Supreme Court challenge under the equal protections provisions?

    If you were in Michigan and a civil servant, would you be concerned that the courts getting involved in the bankruptcy proceedings on pension related issues may lead to a challenge of the State's constitution in federal courts?
    It has been there for fifty years. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

    No. I am not concerned about a challenge to Michigan's constitution regarding this provision.
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  4. #134
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Could be very true, but that is different from estopping a bankruptcy proceeding based on a state constitutional protection.
    Let me correct you, not "could be" but is true. I guess I must have misunderstood your question though. Do you want to know why government pensions should be protected over the rights of creditors in a state constitution?

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What you said made no sense in the first place nor did you offer any verifiable evidence for what you said.

    Again I have provided you with verifiable evidence that the great slide downwards of Detroit began under two Republican mayors. So if you want to blame a party - begin there.

    I also have stated that it is outright ridiculous to affix the blame on a party since the real factors of Detroits decline have little to do with partisan politics.
    I said Detroit has been Solid Blue since the 60's... and somehow that doesn't make sense to you?..even though we both know i'm factually correct, we can move on .

    is it your premise that the city government of Detroit has played no part in it's horrific decline?.. is that what you are trying to say here?

    if you want be to say the decline began under Republican.. fine.. it's factually correct and I have zero problem with that fact... I'm not a Republican, so i don't feel the need to misrepresent or deflect from anything they do.

    now, 50+ years later, after the decline began under republican mayors ...where are we?....
    I can understand why you would feel the need to defend your party and their policies.. i mean, you're a paid Democrat after all.... but i'm kind a awestruck as to how you can sit here and argues the policies put forth by the Detroit Democrats have nothing to do with it's decline.

    was power usurped by some unseen entity during the last 50 years?.. were Democrats powerless to govern and manage that city?.. please, provide me with a valid explanation as to how that city's management has nothing to do with Democrats and their polices.

  6. #136
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    It has been there for fifty years. I have no reason to believe otherwise.

    No. I am not concerned about a challenge to Michigan's constitution regarding this provision.
    No other city in Michigan has declared bankruptcy in the past 50 years, or ever, to my knowledge, so it's never been an issue.

    I'm not passing judgement, other than to say that giving protections such as this to civil servants but not to the general population at large seems wrong to me.

    Your claim that civil servants got this protection because they were paid less and it helped people enter the civil service is countered by the fact that many working people don't have employer provided or subsidized pensions and many working people don't have anywhere near the job security that civil servants have and I'd venture that the average civil servant in 2013 takes home a better salary than many if not most of those people working in Michigan, if they're lucky enough to have a job.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Let me correct you, not "could be" but is true. I guess I must have misunderstood your question though. Do you want to know why government pensions should be protected over the rights of creditors in a state constitution?
    No, I was asking the author of the OP if he felt that government pensions should have a higher level of protection under bankruptcy laws than private sector pensions?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am NOT blaming any party. I specifically stated that there is no party to blame since Detroits problems are economic and racial and not first political.

    Do you comprehend that?

    I also said that if anyone wants to push the right wing meme that it is all the Democrats fault, sorry to rain on your parade of partisan hate, but the facts do not support that. Detroit began its slide from 1950 to 61with two mayors who were Republicans. They saw the loss of 10% of the population.

    So get off the high political horse.
    no, i'll remain on my high horse.... right up until you face facts that are uncomfortable for you to face.



    You have not yet corrected me of one thing so I have no idea what you are tired from.
    you said i hate Detroit..after i have specifically said i like it.
    you said i like coming down against the common man.. which i specifically said i didn't

    that's 2 corrections...so far.





    You confuse me with somebody who cares about your personal feelings. All I am interested in is facts - not your emotions.
    I see, so you can make false claims to what my emotions are in order to poison the deabte, but you really don't care about my emotions.

    color me unconvinced.. your serial dishonesty showing again.




    Yeah - I get it .... I'm a libertarian and that makes me special. yeah I get it.
    no, you don't get it....I've repeatedly informed you as to my ideology and political beliefs... and you repeatedly lie about it.. over and over and over and over.
    the only thing you " get" is how to be dishonest, evasive, and insulting.

    don't worry though, we both know you will continue to lie, and we both know I will continue to correct your falsehoods....such is our lot in life.

  9. #139
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Well somebody is on the job protecting pensions and the rights of workers"

    Judge rules Detroit Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing unconstitutional



    Read more: Judge rules Detroit Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing unconstitutional
    How are retired gov't workers any more worthy of protection than any other citizens/workers who chose to invest in (by buying bonds) or did work for/supplied items to the city gov't on credit? What of a private worker that holds Detroit bonds in their personal retirement fund?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  10. #140
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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    No other city in Michigan has declared bankruptcy in the past 50 years, or ever, to my knowledge, so it's never been an issue.

    I'm not passing judgement, other than to say that giving protections such as this to civil servants but not to the general population at large seems wrong to me.

    Your claim that civil servants got this protection because they were paid less and it helped people enter the civil service is countered by the fact that many working people don't have employer provided or subsidized pensions and many working people don't have anywhere near the job security that civil servants have and I'd venture that the average civil servant in 2013 takes home a better salary than many if not most of those people working in Michigan, if they're lucky enough to have a job.
    Yes, I think you would be hard pressed to find a private place of business that offers a defined benefit plan. Once upon a time, many did. Public workers are/were offered that also. Now that the private sector has gutted all those protections and shifted its risk onto its employees, I suppose the argument becomes why not do that to public workers too? I mean the "a rising tide lifts all boats" was merely rhetoric feed to a populace too ______ to see that the opposite was happening right under their nose. Now we fight for race to the bottom policy because I suppose a sinking ship is each for their own and only the strong survive. Very few are fighting to make this country strong again. It's a shame.

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