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Thread: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Life is a risk. You risk when you put money in a private fund, you risk when you trust a government to follow through with a promise. They lose, so freaking what. That's what they get for electing idiots over and over. Deal with it, just like the private sector does.
    The government does protect people in private pension plans, it's called PBGC. That does not apply to public pensions.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    this is what happens when the takers outnumber the givers... democratic Detroit ran out of pockets to pick to fund their municipal trough and the unions appear to have dug their own graves.
    No, that is what happens when you depress wages. They are doing that with current people who get a job in the auto industry in Detroit. You will grow a whole generation that use to be middle class into the poor working class.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    No, that is what happens when you depress wages. They are doing that with current people who get a job in the auto industry in Detroit. You will grow a whole generation that use to be middle class into the poor working class.
    Depress wages? Can we at least get a consistent story? We go from Unions were great as they brought up wages, to depressed wages.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    Let the unions cover the pensions.

    BTW, you remember Enron? My parents lost about 1/3 of their retirement funds. The teacher's union got bailed out over that by the federal government. My parents did not. It's time for the government to stop picking the winners and losers.
    I see no proof of this at all. Proof please.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Depress wages? Can we at least get a consistent story? We go from Unions were great as they brought up wages, to depressed wages.
    Yes, at one time people who worked in the auto industry in Detroit made a middle income living. New hires no longer will get that option. They are being hired at half the price as the older workers which depresses wages in the area.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    As per the news yesterday, a judge in Lansing views that much differently.

    It never ceases to amaze me how libertarians - when they have the choice - will almost always opt for the common man being screwed and then find a rationalization for it.

    And then you wonder why you cannot even get 1% of the vote for President of the USA. Its really not hard to figure out.
    yup, the Obama honoring judge found it unconstitutional.... as expected.

    so when i specifically say i don't want these retirees to feel any pain, you take away that i'm in favor of screwing the common man.... mmmk... that makes perfect sense.




    it's true, the LP is way behind hte Democratic party on hte scoreboard.

    y'all have lots of presidential wins... we got none.
    y'all have lots of elected office wins at every level of government.. we have very little in comparison.

    and of course, y'all have utterly ruined a major US city... we haven't.

    congratulations on your accomplishments!

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    and what about the people whose pensions are at risk? do we have to give them nothing?
    Ask the clownish politicians that ran Detroit in the ground.

    Looks like government has to be run like a business afterall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yes, at one time people who worked in the auto industry in Detroit made a middle income living. New hires no longer will get that option. They are being hired at half the price as the older workers which depresses wages in the area.
    maybe city officials should have .. oh, i dunno.. found a way to attract and keep those businesses and the residents?....providing a hostile business environment wasn't a very good plan,as we all can see.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    maybe city officials should have .. oh, i dunno.. found a way to attract and keep those businesses and the residents?....providing a hostile business environment wasn't a very good plan,as we all can see.
    I think they did by lowering wages. That really is the point. Of course, the consequence of that is growing a whole new work force of people working for a living on the brink of poverty. You won't be growing a middle class.

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    re: Judge rules Detroit bankruptcy filing UNCONSTITUTIONAL[W:584]

    http://="http://www.usatoday.com/sto...uptcy/2570417/

    This is who will (should) decide if the bankruptcy filing is going to proceed. If he decides it cannot, the city can appeal.

    I worked in a legal department as a Bankruptcy Specialist for 11 years. Though I was not a lawyer, I did serve to represent various creditors interests after Bankruptcy plans were approved and proceeding through restructure/trustee payments. I thought I would share a bit of Chapter 9 Bankruptcy law regarding union employees and pensioners:

    The city is not required to rejecting collective bargaining agreements in section 1113 of the Bankruptcy Code, (collective bargaining with the union) it is not applicable in Chapter 9. The city only needs to prove that the collective bargaining agreement burdens the estate, after scrutiny the equities balance in favor of contract rejection, and that reasonable efforts to negotiate a voluntary modification have been made and are not likely to produce a timely and satisfactory solution.

    On pensions: Some in the legal profession consider pensions as secured, but the majority view is that pensions and general obligation bonds fall under the definition of general unsecured claims in a Chapter 9 bankruptcy. So this is up in the air.

    As far as unions go... no comment.
    Last edited by HelplessHoping; 07-20-13 at 01:33 PM. Reason: grammar corrections
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