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Thread: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I held a TS/SCI clearance for over 15 years. I Worked in my career while inthe military in SIGINT and MASINT. I saw some of those "geniouses" you seem to think work there. Are some of them really really good? Yes. Others are not. I don't elevate ANY agency to godhood as you claim because the management is what matters. The management is lacking in both the NSA and DHS.
    I don't claim management isn't lacking in either, though I will claim that it is superior in the NSA relative to DHS. My point is and has always been that when it comes to cyber, NSA is the NFL, and DHS is the middle school second-string. DHS is and has been staffed by sub-par actors. Your claim that anyone here is elevating anyone else to godhood is only indicative of the fact that you have to create a strawman argument in order for your arguments to have merit, as no one has done so.

    What I did see is mismanagment of funds, fraud waste and abuse, which I reported several times to my superiors. The NSA managment is just as corrupt as any other agency. So when you say the NSA is run by professionals and DHS is not, you are incorrect.
    Staffed. The term (if you will go back and read) is staffed. and the DHS is indeed widely staffed by amateurs who got into their positions because they happened to have a credential (a masters degree) while the NSA is indeed widely staffed by people who got into their positions because they demonstrated capability within a field (SIGINT). No one (other than you) said anything about corruption or abuse of funds.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Staffed. The term (if you will go back and read) is staffed.
    This is your quote:

    The NSA is run by professionals. The DHS is a bunch of misfit goobs.
    You said RUN, not staffed.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    and you replied and the response was:

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ....not really. It's just opinion sort of in the same way that the belief among most NFL players that - currently - the Jets kinda suck is "just opinion". DHS is an unfortunate joke, widely staffed by people out of their element (you find counter-examples: within the Coast Guard, for example. But Big DHS? Not so much. The scissors video was all too unsurprising.).



    Yeah. There is a definite qualitative difference. The NSA, for example, is staffed by the super nerds of the super nerds. If you are extremely good at what you do, you may get a chance to compete for a chance to try out for the NSA's players (there is a reason Snowden wasn't NSA, but rather a contractor whose job it was to give out accounts and passwords). The DHS, however, was staffed in a hurry, and so the call went out for anyone who had a Masters Degree - which turned out to mean a lot of retired or former teachers. So the NSA is staffed by SIGINT ninjas... and the DHS is staffed by the lady who got bored teaching 10th Grade Social Studies. Qualitative. Difference.
    and I stand by my statements. The NSA is a professional organization, and is indeed run by relative professionals. Comparing a G.O. slated for NSA to Big Sis? Really? The DHS, continues to suck relative to the NSA.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    In other news, apparently there was no democracy before the invention of the internet.
    Carters comments were pretty broad sweeping. He was referencing the out of control government agencies that operate without oversight, the failures of congress, the usurping of powers by the president, the expansion of spying on US citizens, etc.

    One thing is certain...Carter just put his hood pass up for review.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    It's such a sad story that the only time a US politician will tell the truth is when he is out of office.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    The NSA doesn't make policy; it is but an signals intelligence collection agency. Policy is created and implemented by politicians- take your grievances to them.
    Who me? Grievances?! With NSA? The National Security Agency?! You are kidding right?

    I was just speculating. There are "If's" in my statements you know?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
    The Republic of Dardania is the proper name for: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe...ification.html

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    No. His idiotic statement presupposes the necessity of an internet as a precondition for democracy. Otherwise, observation of the activity on it could not effect democracy.
    I think this still misses the point. Look: democracy existed before any sort of mass media had been invented. But surely no one is so foolish as to believe that if government controlled all the major media (nightly news, cable TV, radio talk shows) it would be a good thing. The government--and more specifically, certain politicians with their own individual interests--would use the tools at hand to promote their interests, and that promotion would in turn require that the free flow of information be strangled. For a society that uses mass media regularly as a means by which to trade ideas, that would effectively inhibit the functioning of democracy.

    As our society relies increasingly on social media for the dissemination of new ideas, a government agency which can subvert the normal social processes by which some ideas gain traction and others do not, has the power to effectively inhibit the functioning of a democracy.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    9/11 Commission Report p 88

    The NSA had an "almost obsessive protection of sources and methods, and its' focus on foreign intelligence and its avoidance of anything domestic" helped create the "wall" in U.S. intelligence that resulted in missing the 9/11 plot before it happened.

    IOW - all the stuff that we are shocked - shocked - to find going on in here is what we told them to go do.
    Many who have expressed concerns, do not seek to eliminate all domestic surveillance. Instead, their objections concern the magnitude of domestic surveillance. Many who have raised concerns about the scope of the domestic surveillance almost certainly would accept targeted domestic surveillance when there is reasonable evidence of suspect activity--activity that poses a reasonable threat to security. The key threshold is the existence of reasonable evidence.

    Does that mean that some risks would be missed? Yes. But even blanket surveillance can't eliminate all risks. The Boston Marathon terrorist attack provides an example.

    As the relevant information is classified, it is unclear whether the widespread domestic surveillance activities actually produced outcomes that could not have been attainable with more carefully-tailored surveillance. In other words, was there really sufficient marginal benefit to justify the scope of the domestic surveillance? That some plots were identified in testimony before Congress does not address the issue as to whether those plots could not have been found absent the blanket surveillance.

    One should strike a balance between risk reduction and activities that pose a risk to personal freedom and privacy. Without balance, one can either miss too many risks or one can lose important elements of liberty that have defined the U.S. in its historic experience. In both circumstances, the costs outweigh the benefits and society is worse off.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    In a similar fashion, I "elevate" Navy SEALs above your standard JROTC unit when it comes to combat efficiency.
    That recruiter lied to me.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    The question is then, are we still a functioning Republic? That should have been the retort to Jimmy. I don't look to a guy who was one of the crappiest presidents for cogent political commentary. Now, if I was wondering about the effectiveness of humanitarian efforts, Jimmy would be a guy I'd listen to.

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