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Thread: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    9-11 was not a failure of overseas intelligence gathering being coordinated with domestic agencies- it was a failure of the FBI to process vital tips from field agents regarding tell tale actions by foreigners on USofA soil.

    The NSA didn't invent using propaganda or monitoring electronic signals for our national 'interest'. We do remember a very recent use of DoD propaganda printed in Iraqi news sources under Iraqi reporter's by lines in an attempt to influence the people we were 'helping'- don't we?

    I would say if one describes our nation as a non functioning democracy it is more so due to a deadlocked hyper partisan political climate, intensive lobbying by big money special interest groups and a growing sense of 'I got mine, to hell with the rest of you'. As our economy turns from a consumer driven one to a wealth hoarding one, democracy suffers. A constant drumbeat to maintain a military not just defensive in nature but capable of enforcing our corporate demands on the world turns us away from our own citizens and unequal social conditions. Our big cities, once the pinnacle of our nation are now the blight of it- and you can't blame liberals for that- ALL of society and political leanings have a hand in this.

    Our drone program seems like a bad sci-fi movie where an E-Vile Empire enforces it's rule on a subject planet by overhead death orbs.

    But to me the use of the NSA to monitor and influence social babble is just an extension of what governments have been doing for centuries, just updated to match the new social trends.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I think he was saying that the internet is ruining freedom because the government is taking a tool and using it against its citizens for its unintended purpose.
    No. His idiotic statement presupposes the necessity of an internet as a precondition for democracy. Otherwise, observation of the activity on it could not effect democracy.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    NSA falls under DOD.
    I stand corrected...however:

    https://www.cdt.org/commentary/dhs-n...be-named-later

    and

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/06/18/dh...powers-as-nsa/

    The desire to be under the same umbrella is apparent.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Defending our critical infrastructure from computer network attack is just plain smart.

    this is a classic case of ill-suited crossover. The NSA is run by professionals. The DHS is a bunch of misfit goobs.

    The desire to be under the same umbrella is apparent.
    From an IC perspective, they all fall partly under the DNI.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The NSA is run by professionals. The DHS is a bunch of misfit goobs.
    That is your opinion, but it is just your opinion. ALL agencies in the government have had wasteful spending, so I don't see the NSA being any different just because it is under the DoD.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    I think he was saying that the internet is ruining freedom because the government is taking a tool and using it against its citizens for its unintended purpose.
    If it were unintended then there would be no reason to do it. I can assure you it is intended.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    That is your opinion, but it is just your opinion.
    ....not really. It's just opinion sort of in the same way that the belief among most NFL players that - currently - the Jets kinda suck is "just opinion". DHS is an unfortunate joke, widely staffed by people out of their element (you find counter-examples: within the Coast Guard, for example. But Big DHS? Not so much. The scissors video was all too unsurprising.).

    ALL agencies in the government have had wasteful spending, so I don't see the NSA being any different just because it is under the DoD.
    Yeah. There is a definite qualitative difference. The NSA, for example, is staffed by the super nerds of the super nerds. If you are extremely good at what you do, you may get a chance to compete for a chance to try out for the NSA's players (there is a reason Snowden wasn't NSA, but rather a contractor whose job it was to give out accounts and passwords). The DHS, however, was staffed in a hurry, and so the call went out for anyone who had a Masters Degree - which turned out to mean a lot of retired or former teachers. So the NSA is staffed by SIGINT ninjas... and the DHS is staffed by the lady who got bored teaching 10th Grade Social Studies. Qualitative. Difference.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. His idiotic statement presupposes the necessity of an internet as a precondition for democracy. Otherwise, observation of the activity on it could not effect democracy.
    Good point. I was remarking to another statement he had. I read it earlier on a German site.
    We went from sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me to safe spaces.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ....not really. It's just opinion sort of in the same way that the belief among most NFL players that - currently - the Jets kinda suck is "just opinion". DHS is an unfortunate joke, widely staffed by people out of their element (you find counter-examples: within the Coast Guard, for example. But Big DHS? Not so much. The scissors video was all too unsurprising.).



    Yeah. There is a definite qualitative difference. The NSA, for example, is staffed by the super nerds of the super nerds. If you are extremely good at what you do, you may get a chance to compete for a chance to try out for the NSA's players (there is a reason Snowden wasn't NSA, but rather a contractor whose job it was to give out accounts and passwords). The DHS, however, was staffed in a hurry, and so the call went out for anyone who had a Masters Degree - which turned out to mean a lot of retired or former teachers. So the NSA is staffed by SIGINT ninjas... and the DHS is staffed by the lady who got bored teaching 10th Grade Social Studies. Qualitative. Difference.
    You need to stop watching T.V. and movies. Yes, there are intelligent people in the NSA, but they are managed by regular people as well, not super nerd geniouses. A neighbor of mine when I was in North Carolina got picked as a Manager and he was no super nerd.

    So you might want to step back and not believe every movie you see on T.V.

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    Re: Jimmy Carter: ‘America no longer has a functioning democracy’

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue_State View Post
    Good point. I was remarking to another statement he had. I read it earlier on a German site.
    Fair enough.


    To bring it back to the OP, I think he is trying to claim that the unrestricted communications of Facebook etc. are enablers of Democracy, and that the NSA program limits the effectiveness of those enablers.

    Two points about how very wrong he was:

    1. Information derived from programs of the kind he is referring to are not exactly shared with the likes of Egyptian police. They are - you know - sort of "secret".
    2. Facebook et. al. do not enable democracy. They enable group action. There is an important difference between "representative government" and "a mob".

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