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Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

Μολὼν λαβέ;1062067064 said:
Here's another one. Someone is on top of you MMA style beating your head into the concrete. Do you have the option to retreat before being able to use deadly force, i. e. Stand Your Ground?

Oh sure! Like that would ever happen:roll:

:lamo
 
The below quote is from the juror interviewed on Anderson Cooper


So George in a locked car and armed with the police on the way ... could not take pause and follow instructions from law enforcement yet ... the juror says Trayvon should have "When George confronted him, and he could have walked away and gone home " ...?

In bold are her exact words.

Do you think unarmed teens being followed have different fear reactions than a husky big guy who knows the police are en-route with a car and armed? We do not even know any account but George's fishy tale.

OK, first off, he didn't NOT follow police instructions, the transcript I seen said "Are you following him? Ok, we don't need you to do that." Is that an instruction telling him not to do something? Or is it them saying it isn't required?

Second, as the story goes, Tray instigated the fight, perhaps our youth will think twice about sucker punching someone when they know the end result is they could end up dead.

I know police who in training are told and this is the honest to god truth "If you have to use your service weapon make sure you are the only one left to give a statement."

good for the goose is...
 
OK, first off, he didn't NOT follow police instructions, the transcript I seen said "Are you following him? Ok, we don't need you to do that." Is that an instruction telling him not to do something? Or is it them saying it isn't required?

Second, as the story goes, Tray instigated the fight, perhaps our youth will think twice about sucker punching someone when they know the end result is they could end up dead.

I know police who in training are told and this is the honest to god truth "If you have to use your service weapon make sure you are the only one left to give a statement."

good for the goose is...
As the story goes according to whom? Zimmerman, the guy who has every incentive to lie? As for the weapon thing and killing, yeah the story goes the same with with homeowners, and for good reason.
 
As the story goes according to whom? Zimmerman, the guy who has every incentive to lie? As for the weapon thing and killing, yeah the story goes the same with with homeowners, and for good reason.

According to the evidence provided at the trial that gave a not guilty verdict to the accused.
 
According to the evidence provided at the trial that gave a not guilty verdict to the accused.

There was no evidence to show who started the fight. That's a figment of your imagination. The only evidence was Trayvon's girlfriend who says that Trayvon was pushed, and her testimony wouldn't be considered credible in that circumstance because she was on the phone and couldn't possibly tell what happened.

What we do know is that Zimmerman got out of his car looking for streetsigns in backyards.
 
It's far better to have criminals terrified of committing crimes than lawful citizens terrified to leave their own homes. People get caught in the crossfire either way, but firearms in the American civilian sector are still used vastly more for good than evil. In fact, police kill far more people man for man than your average, law abiding gun owner.

As to the above statement, there was insufficient evidence to show that Zimmerman had committed murder or manslaughter in court. Thus, he was found not guilty. There was no objective evidence showing that Zimmerman committed murder beyond a reasonable doubt that was presented at the trial.
 
Holder is the turd in the punch bowl. I think I dislike him more than Obama. We can't seem to get rid of this crook.
 
There was no evidence to show who started the fight. That's a figment of your imagination. The only evidence was Trayvon's girlfriend who says that Trayvon was pushed, and her testimony wouldn't be considered credible in that circumstance because she was on the phone and couldn't possibly tell what happened.

What we do know is that Zimmerman got out of his car looking for streetsigns in backyards.

Juror: 'No doubt' that George Zimmerman feared for his life - CNN.com

Figment, huh? Well someone is suffering from delusions....

Where did this juror get her impression? By evidence presented and testimony reviewed...
 
Holder is the turd in the punch bowl. I think I dislike him more than Obama. We can't seem to get rid of this crook.

Unfortunately for our nation, nobody has really tried, much less fast and furiously.
 
Holder is an idiot.

He is without doubt, among the most throughly corrupt human beings to ever hold public office. He is a racist to his core and throughly unfit for public office.

What Holder seeks is little more than a reverse of the circumstances which he feels that black folks were subjected to during the last 230 years in the US, wherein black folks could not offer a legal defense for killing a white person.

He literally is claiming that because Trayvon was Black, Zimmerman has NO POTENTIAL BASIS WHICH COULD HOPE TO JUSTIFY HIS BEING KILLED.

When in truth, that position is absurd… Trayvon got what Trayvon deserved. Had Trayvon kept walking to wherever it was he was going, then Zimmerman would have never spoken to him… The odds are, that the Sanford PD would have found Trayvon, asked him some questions and sent him on his way.

But TRAYVON DECIDED TO ATTACK ZIMMERMAN and it was at THAT point that Zimmerman was justified in defending himself.
 
Hillarious stuff here. Not only does he think Stand Your Ground laws suck, he also thinks that a victim has the duty, yes, he said duty, to retreat.

Can't wait for the next murder so we can all question the victims inability to follow their duty to run away.
Brave-Sir-Robin-movies-591205_1008_566.jpg
 
Legal mandating of a "flight" response for all people, largely based off a gross overreaction to one case that's being held up as some kind of common place standard.

This is the idiocy of our politics.
 
Legal mandating of a "flight" response for all people, largely based off a gross overreaction to one case that's being held up as some kind of common place standard.

This is the idiocy of our politics.

Our whole world is being turned upside down...and not only with the Zimmerman case...but that's what we're discussing here.

First, the state of Florida threw the full weight and power of the government against a private citizen and persecuted him for political gain in response to mob rule. Then our Federal government indicates they intend to throw their full weight and power at a private citizen in a Civil Rights case.

I believe in "investigating." What I don't believe in is our Federal government's impartiality in this matter. I think it's an attempt to lynch a man who's already been found not guilty of murder. To do whatever is necessary to completely destroy him. For political gain. In answer to mob rule. It is frightening.

If there had been no SYG law in Florida, jury instructions would have simply said:

In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real.

This would have been left out:

If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

A sane jury would have come to the same conclusion.

To think that George Zimmerman had some kind of duty to force himself from underneath Trayvon Martin's straddle is insane.

It's a scary world we live in . . .
 
Our whole world is being turned upside down...and not only with the Zimmerman case...but that's what we're discussing here.

First, the state of Florida threw the full weight and power of the government against a private citizen and persecuted him for political gain in response to mob rule. Then our Federal government indicates they intend to throw their full weight and power at a private citizen in a Civil Rights case.

I believe in "investigating." What I don't believe in is our Federal government's impartiality in this matter. I think it's an attempt to lynch a man who's already been found not guilty of murder. To do whatever is necessary to completely destroy him. For political gain. In answer to mob rule. It is frightening.

If there had been no SYG law in Florida, jury instructions would have simply said:



This would have been left out:



A sane jury would have come to the same conclusion.

To think that George Zimmerman had some kind of duty to force himself from underneath Trayvon Martin's straddle is insane.

It's a scary world we live in . . .

I think that the Florida law doesn't work, in that it doesn't distinguish between people who aren't looking for trouble and people who go out on armed patrol. Theoretically according to the law the verdict was correct, however the law is flawed and the Z/M case just threw light on what those flaws were. The problem is, you're not going to get the law to change because the media on both sides is more interested in whipping their people into a "justified outrage" than they are in saying "The idea behind the law is good, but we need to tweak it so it works."

Zimmerman could not have gotten out from under Martin (or we don't think he could anyway), but he could have avoided the situation altogether.
 
Wishful thinking,
I'm afraid.

What would be lovely would be Al Sharpton turning his focus to Chicago.


Never going to happen. There's no distinct racial dichotomy to play off of.

No way to build a narrative based on. "racial injustice" and false pretenses, so the violence continues.

If the body Count in Chicago was being caused exclusively by Whites ( or " White Hispanics...." with black victims, they would have mobilized the National Guard months ago and we would have never heard a word about George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin.

But apparently the blood shed is justified in the minds of the race baiters.

I wonder, if the gang bangers call a truce in Chicago for the Trayvon Martin Protest ? And call it off once they get back to the hood so the random killings can continue ?
 
I think that the Florida law doesn't work, in
that it doesn't distinguish between people who aren't looking for trouble and people who go out on armed patrol. Theoretically according to the law the verdict was correct, however the law is flawed and the Z/M case just threw light on what those flaws were. The problem is, you're not going to get the law to change because the media on both sides is more interested in whipping their people into a "justified outrage" than they are in saying "The idea behind the law is good, but we need to tweak it so it works."

Zimmerman could not have gotten out from under Martin (or we don't think he could anyway), but he could have avoided the situation altogether.

There was a distinct and acute drop in violent crime after the stand your ground law in Florida was passed.

Of course the law works.
 
Legal mandating of a "flight" response for all people, largely based off a gross overreaction to one case that's being held up as some kind of common place standard.

This is the idiocy of our politics.

And, strangely, the stand your ground law wasn't used in Zimmerman's defense. It was a straightforward self defense case.
 
How are you going to retreat when someone is on top of you pounding your head into the ground..... :shrug: Holder is an absolute idiot.
Regular self-defense laws don't require people to retreat in those instances. "Duty to retreat" laws only require retreat when there is a retreat option.
 
Regular self-defense laws don't require people to retreat in those instances. "Duty to retreat" laws only require retreat when there is a retreat option.

Right but the only reason Holder is harping on this is because of the Zimmerman case, it's terrible to see him and the rest of the Obama regime politicizing this.
 
Right but the only reason Holder is harping on this is because of the Zimmerman case, it's terrible to see him and the rest of the Obama regime politicizing this.
They aren't "politicizing" it. It's a political issue inherently. Every case is.
 
"Stand your ground" benefits black shooters in self defense FAR more than it does anyone. Getting rid of it will only put a lot more black people in prison.
 
This is all about Obama/Holder trying to excuse the fact in front of their supporters that they're getting nowhere on the civil rights charges. Can't get Zimmerman, go after SYG. Classic. Eric Holder - worst Atty Gen ever.
 
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