Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 203

Thread: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

  1. #11
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The premise of his position is that regular citizens (i.e. not law enforcement) have too much authority to use violence so this test of sincerity doesn't make sense.
    ..yes, i understand what his premise is and why he would exclude law enforcement

    law enforcement officers lives are simply more important than ordinary folks.. so they should be left to be able to defend themselves and ordinary folks should have their choices constrained by law.

  2. #12
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    law enforcement officers lives are simply more important than ordinary folks.. so they should be left to be able to defend themselves and ordinary folks should have their choices constrained by law.
    No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.

  3. #13
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Well, his claim seems to be that many of those who claim to be defending themselves from violence are actually perpetuating violence. So, to him, he is concerned with those people.
    if they are perpetuating violence, SYG would not come into play ..
    SYG concerns self defense, not being the assailant.

    Holder should know this..

  4. #14
    Professor

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Last Seen
    10-28-16 @ 07:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,526

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    It means never let a crisis and an angry ignorant mass go to waste. Especially considering the Stand Your Ground law has absolutely nothing to do with the Zimmerman case.

  5. #15
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,343

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.
    However, even a LEO will tell you that in that crucial time when you might need immediate force, they might not be there...So I guess you're saying that's too bad.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    if they are perpetuating violence, SYG would not come into play ..
    SYG concerns self defense, not being the assailant.

    Holder should know this..
    Holder does know this. He's arguing that Stand Your Ground allows assailants to claim victimhood and self-defense when neither applies to them.

  7. #17
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    However, even a LEO will tell you that in that crucial time when you might need immediate force, they might not be there...So I guess you're saying that's too bad.
    If you need immediate force, then regular self-defense laws would still apply.

  8. #18
    Sage

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Texas, Vegas, Colombia
    Last Seen
    11-28-16 @ 06:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,295

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    No, the premise isn't that LEO lives are "more important". It is that LEOs are more trained than the average citizen to use force appropriately.
    ahh, so he's assuming us regular folks can't handle our ****, therefore, they should be made to run away.

    I have a novel idea.. how about letting folks choose the course of action they are comfortable with?... some will most assuredly run away, some will most assuredly provide an active defense... but most importantly, the choice will be left with the person that is actually involved in the situation, rather than some dimwitted politicians trying to decide their course of action for them .

    god forbid Holder ever fins himself in a situation where he has ot defend himself... well, after he is out of office and no longer has armed guards doing it or him... I think he would like to have a choice in the matter like anyone else would.

  9. #19
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    ahh, so he's assuming us regular folks can't handle our ****, therefore, they should be made to run away.

    I have a novel idea.. how about letting folks choose the course of action they are comfortable with?... some will most assuredly run away, some will most assuredly provide an active defense... but most importantly, the choice will be left with the person that is actually involved in the situation, rather than some dimwitted politicians trying to decide their course of action for them .

    god forbid Holder ever fins himself in a situation where he has ot defend himself... well, after he is out of office and no longer has armed guards doing it or him... I think he would like to have a choice in the matter like anyone else would.
    Well, he is not arguing that the self-defense laws, in general, should be taken away. He is arguing that Stand Your Ground laws ought to be reexamined and perhaps done away with. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to characterize his arguments as taking the self-defense option away from people. You would still have the option to defend yourself if it was necessary.

  10. #20
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:45 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,343

    Re: Holder speaks out against 'Stand Your Ground' laws after Zimmerman verdict

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If you need immediate force, then regular self-defense laws would still apply.
    We see how the self defense laws are going so well that a jury acquits, and what happens? The original instigators of the race baiting, whom said that they wanted him arrested, and charged, all of the sudden don't like the verdict, so the pressure is on for Holder to trump something up, and get him...It is sick.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

Page 2 of 21 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •