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Thread: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions[W:240]

  1. #181
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    No facilities to do abortions or administer chemical abortion. MAPs work 3 ways, including as the 3rd safeguard by preventing attachment to the placenta. If "single cell conception" could even theoretically be determined, MAPs are also illegal in Texas under the new law and any conception that can be determined
    I'd like a source for this statement, and one proving that 19 abortion clinics were closed. Morning after's are not covered under this and are still OTC.

    Or are you the type that makes up numbers then refuses to source them?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Correct me if I'm completely wrong on this, but it seems like both of you wouldn't necessarily find it a bad thing for an earlier elective cutoff if 100% of medical/deformity situations could be exempted, correct? It seems far more that you are concerned about abnormal conditions.

    My plan would be such:

    - Any elective abortions up to 12 weeks completely legal
    - Any abortions after 12 weeks must be either for major fetus deformities or for real medical danger for the mother. The applicability in these situations would be determined by doctors bound by a loose legal framework.

    What would be the problem with this? Any extraneous situations would be covered, and normal elective abortions would be limited after 12 weeks. Is there any reason why a perfectly healthy woman with a perfectly healthy baby needs to wait 12-24 weeks to make a decision?
    RA...I hope you don't mind if I inject a bit more in our exchange...but related to your suggestion above...

    Obviously...this isn't a black or white issue. And you know that. It's not a one-shoe-fits-all-sizes situation. Not all women's bodies respond to conception exactly the same way. Actually some women don't even know that they're pregnant at 12 week. And actually there's other mitigating situations.

    I know that you are a reasonable, logical, compassionate person. But I feel compelled to ask you: Do you "honestly" believe that the remaining 15% of abortions performed outside the most common stage of pregnancy (12 weeks and under)...that most of these women get abortions simply out of convenience...or just abortion on demand, which involves terminating a healthy fetus?

    We already know that 1.5% are 20 plus week abortions which are due to defective fetal issues and health/life of the woman.

    Given your feelings and beliefs on the matter...I suggest that the only real number to look at with any genuine scrutiny is the 3.8% of abortions between 13 weeks and 19 weeks. There are so many reasons that can be involved in this matter and things that we can't imagine as men. But even for women, this has to be one of the hardest decisions ever.

    I think it would be, by far, the exception, and not the rule, that women just have no feelings or self-regard as to the seriousness of abortion and means no more than like getting their nails done.

    But...we realistically know....that for the vast majority of women who have abortions...don't frivolously abort mature fetuses... according to publicly available information.

    Yes. Anything is possible. Anything that can happen will happen, but when we've looked at legitimate forms of information that tells us women aren't having late term abortions who have healthy fetuses. Why assume otherwise?

    Why assume that anything that anybody does in our laws or hospital/doctors/clinic policies would stop "the exception - the woman who would abort a health fetus 20 weeks and up". Just like all other human behaviors...regardless of laws, if someone is determine to do something they will.

    In the case of abortion...while it could happen...it's just not the norm.

    Women who don't want to have an unwanted pregnancy don't delay anymore than they have to. Most women take this matter with a heavy burden to consider... and with great stress and concern.

    I am not charged as keeper of my brothers and sisters for good reason. I can't control what anybody else does with their lives. But...MOST IMPORTANTLY...I have to trust that all women have the capacity to make sound choices and decisions for themselves. And they have to trust us as men to do the same.

    Thus far...humanity as a whole...hasn't created even the beginning of what might be the impetus for the extinction of humankind caused by reproduction, much less abortion. Thanks...

  3. #183
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    1) Reducing it to 5 does not effectively outlaw it, there'd be 5.

    2) You have zero proof that 19 abortion clinics will now close because of this.

    19 of the 24 are not "surgical facilities." Therefore they are illegal. None of the remaining 6 have hospital practice privileges and the threat of terrorist, murderous ProLifers make that unlike.

    If you could not vote without traveling over 1000 miles and spending $2000+, for most people that would be effectively outlawing voting for most people.

    ProLife Republicans did not pass this legislation to facilitate women getting abortions. They passed it to backdoor close down abortion facilities by requirements that exactly no other clinic is required to meet nor has any purpose other than closing down locations that do abortions.

    It is possible, however, their might be a couple such locations open up for rich Republican women in Dallas and Houston.

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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Easy for a person who doesn't have sex to propose?
    Something like that. Maybe some of us just put our principles in front of our pleasure.

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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Correct me if I'm completely wrong on this, but it seems like both of you wouldn't necessarily find it a bad thing for an earlier elective cutoff if 100% of medical/deformity situations could be exempted, correct? It seems far more that you are concerned about abnormal conditions.

    My plan would be such:

    - Any elective abortions up to 12 weeks completely legal
    - Any abortions after 12 weeks must be either for major fetus deformities or for real medical danger for the mother. The applicability in these situations would be determined by doctors bound by a loose legal framework.

    What would be the problem with this? Any extraneous situations would be covered, and normal elective abortions would be limited after 12 weeks. Is there any reason why a perfectly healthy woman with a perfectly healthy baby needs to wait 12-24 weeks to make a decision?
    Would recommend traveling to Mexico or Canada for those? Maybe a nice European trip for the wealthy. And, of course, anyone illegal in the country (of the 12 million), they do not have such option.

  6. #186
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The article was clear: there is NO CAUSATION between legal abortion and the rate of abortions. The only causation illustrated by the study is that of access to birth control decreasing unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions - which any moron could deduce without a study.

    The study is useless. Everyone knows that access to birth control will reduce unwanted pregnancies.

    It's nothing but a misleading title. Correlation does not equal causation. Do you understand?
    Texas is limiting acess to womens health, birth control and to reproductive education.

    From this article:Women Must Have Access to the Health Care Necessary to Prevent Unwanted Pregnancies

    Texas Republicansí actions are insincere and will hinder womenís access to health care.
    If Republicans truly wanted to reduce abortions in Texas, they would invest in reproductive health care and comprehensive sexual education across the state.
    Yet the anti-choice legislation under consideration could forcibly close three dozen licensed health centers in Texas where women may receive abortions, reproductive health services and cancer screenings.

    I am not pro-abortion, but I do believe a woman should be able to make intensely personal decisions about her pregnancy with the counsel of her doctor, her family and her faith ó and without the interference of politicians. The Constitution guarantees all of us a right to privacy and freedom of religion. I believe a woman must be free to make the difficult decision about the future of her pregnancy in conjunction with her family and health care professionals.

    Women must also have access to the information and health care necessary to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

    Women who are knowledgeable about reproductive health and have access to contraception are more likely to avoid unwanted pregnancies, precluding the need for many abortions. Texas Republicans have not connected the dots.

    Instead of supporting access to reproductive health care, Republicans chose to cut the stateís family-planning budget by two-thirds in 2011. These cuts were projected to cause 284,000 women to lose access to family-planning services and to add $273 million in costs to taxpayers because of unplanned pregnancies in Texas.

    Texas has the fifth-highest teen pregnancy rate of any state in the country,
    but Republicans have consistently opposed one of the best tools we have to reduce teen pregnancy: comprehensive sex education. Comprehensive sex education programs are demonstrably effective in helping youth delay sexual activity, reduce the number of sexual partners and increase the use of contraception. In fact, researchers using data from the National Survey of Family Growth found that teens who received comprehensive sex education were 50 percent less likely to get pregnant than teens who received abstinence-only education.

    So why arenít Texas Republicans actively supporting access to education and reproductive health care?
    Read more:

    Women Must Have Access to the Health Care Necessary to Prevent Unwanted Pregnancies | Commentary : Roll Call Opinion
    When it comes to matters of reproduce health, Politicians and the religious dogma of another faith should never interfere with religious liberty of an individual or her faith.

  7. #187
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    My wife has undergone a great amount of traditional and advanced mainstream medical care. She also, however, is very I n-tune with the alternative healthcare community. As the government increasingly controls - and restricts - a person's healthcare options - and driving up the costs radically in doing so - millions upon millions are rejecting traditional doctors, hospitals and medication for themselves and their children. Some because they no longer trust doctors. Others because they can no longer afford it anyway.

    Most family practice doctors are leaving the profession.

    This law is an example, in which for political and ideological agenda, they have added a $2+ million price tag to any doctor who would give an "abortion pill" to a 13-year-old impregnated by daily rape by an uncle or step-father. If possible at any price for it to be legal at any price.

    The result of is further towards a rapidly growing underground of herbal and/or toxin chemicals to cause a chemical abortion. So the only option for the parent of that 13 year old rape victim under the new Texas law who doesn't have days and thousands of dollars to take the child out-of-state is to given her alternative herbal and toxic chemicals attempting to cause a chemical abortion instead.

    But, as Tigger stated, the solution is simple. 13 year old girls should not get themselves raped. It's the girl's fault. So if she dies of such desperate toxins - that maybe the girl learned about online or from a friend - that girl deserved to die anyway (according to JayDubya) as her just punishment for murdering her uncle's or step-father's rape baby.

    Welcome to Texas, the rapist's favorite state.
    Last edited by joko104; 07-15-13 at 03:22 PM.

  8. #188
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Something like that. Maybe some of us just put our principles in front of our pleasure.
    Gosh, Tigger...I'm really starting to get concerned for you.

  9. #189
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    RA...I hope you don't mind if I inject a bit more in our exchange...but related to your suggestion above...

    Obviously...this isn't a black or white issue. And you know that. It's not a one-shoe-fits-all-sizes situation. Not all women's bodies respond to conception exactly the same way. Actually some women don't even know that they're pregnant at 12 week. And actually there's other mitigating situations.

    I know that you are a reasonable, logical, compassionate person. But I feel compelled to ask you: Do you "honestly" believe that the remaining 15% of abortions performed outside the most common stage of pregnancy (12 weeks and under)...that most of these women get abortions simply out of convenience...or just abortion on demand, which involves terminating a healthy fetus?

    We already know that 1.5% are 20 plus week abortions which are due to defective fetal issues and health/life of the woman.

    Given your feelings and beliefs on the matter...I suggest that the only real number to look at with any genuine scrutiny is the 3.8% of abortions between 13 weeks and 19 weeks. There are so many reasons that can be involved in this matter and things that we can't imagine as men. But even for women, this has to be one of the hardest decisions ever.

    I think it would be, by far, the exception, and not the rule, that women just have no feelings or self-regard as to the seriousness of abortion and means no more than like getting their nails done.

    But...we realistically know....that for the vast majority of women who have abortions...don't frivolously abort mature fetuses... according to publicly available information.

    Yes. Anything is possible. Anything that can happen will happen, but when we've looked at legitimate forms of information that tells us women aren't having late term abortions who have healthy fetuses. Why assume otherwise?

    Why assume that anything that anybody does in our laws or hospital/doctors/clinic policies would stop "the exception - the woman who would abort a health fetus 20 weeks and up". Just like all other human behaviors...regardless of laws, if someone is determine to do something they will.

    In the case of abortion...while it could happen...it's just not the norm.

    Women who don't want to have an unwanted pregnancy don't delay anymore than they have to. Most women take this matter with a heavy burden to consider... and with great stress and concern.

    I am not charged as keeper of my brothers and sisters for good reason. I can't control what anybody else does with their lives. But...MOST IMPORTANTLY...I have to trust that all women have the capacity to make sound choices and decisions for themselves. And they have to trust us as men to do the same.

    Thus far...humanity as a whole...hasn't created even the beginning of what might be the impetus for the extinction of humankind caused by reproduction, much less abortion. Thanks...
    I've never made any claim that most, or even a lot of late abortions happen out of convenience, just that when they do occur, they should be illegal. As I pointed out with my analogy before, just because not a lot of people stab other people in the face with a pencil, doesn't mean it needs to be legal.

    My plan accounts for all of these situations. If a doctor determines the abortion isn't "willy-nilly", and had a fundamental medical reasoning, then that exception would be entirely legal. The only group of people you and I don't agree on are elective abortionists after 12 weeks. THIS is the only category we disagree on. So looking at ONLY elective abortions after 12 weeks, what real reasoning does someone need 20+ weeks instead of 12 weeks to make a decision?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    19 of the 24 are not "surgical facilities." Therefore they are illegal. None of the remaining 6 have hospital practice privileges and the threat of terrorist, murderous ProLifers make that unlike.

    If you could not vote without traveling over 1000 miles and spending $2000+, for most people that would be effectively outlawing voting for most people.

    ProLife Republicans did not pass this legislation to facilitate women getting abortions.
    These facilities have not closed yet. You have not looked at their books or queried their investors about their financial situation. You're somehow pushing the fantasy that it is impossible for a clinic to get within regulations. Every hospital and plastic surgeon in the country meets these standards, and I don't see you saying every one of them is "illegal".
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  10. #190
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    Re: Texas Senate passes sweeping new abortion restrictions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Something like that. Maybe some of us just put our principles in front of our pleasure.
    Your should change "our" in your second sentence to "other people's."

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