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Thread: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    I was listening to some talk show on our local radio station and they were talking about this. One of the callers made a good point about the law and the implementation of this law.

    With all the goings on and problems coming into focus (many of those issues were being screamed about but ignored by those wanting this bill to pass) HOW the administration is implementing this law, with waivers, exemptions and delays, why did Congress pass a law if it is not being followed by the Executive Branch. The law specifically gives dates that must be met...by law. This administration is handing out exemptions to those laws.

    The Constitution says that the President shall enforce the laws it does not say that the President shall hand out exemptions to those laws.

    Issue #1 for me is that the law is the law, like it or not. If they werent in such a damn hurry in pushing this bill through so fast and done it right the first time, they wouldnt be sitting there with their thumbs up their butts handing out exemptions to their law.

    Issue #2 for me is the exemptions themselves. The President handing out exemptions to laws of our country is insane. If he does this, what is to stop this President or any future President from exempting certain provisions of other laws...even temporarily.
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the need for employer purchased/provided healthcare under the ACA depends on the number of full time employees a company has, full time being defined as those working a standard 40 hr work week. The unions may be coming to the realization that many companies may be looking to move their full time employees to 39 hrs, or 38, 37, etc. in order to reduce their number of "full time" employees, thus eliminating a significant cost to their bottom lines. If these unions lose their employer provided/supplemented health care, that would do significant harm to the level of health care insurance those employees have going forward.
    It applies to companies with 50 or more full-time employees -- defined as 30 hours per week.
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Given the finite amount of jobs and the reality that there are far more workers than things to do because of technology shifts that have made workers much more productive or unneeded as they were when the 40 hour workweek was established as the norm perhaps it is not a health care act that is making it problematic for society? That system was formed in a time when we needed many workers for manufacturing. Things are just getting worse for employee demand on that front now that we are making newer technology leaps into things like 3D printing. There are some problems with the ACA, but the 40 hour workweek is not one of them.
    I understand where he is coming from.

    Companies can not afford to meet the requirements for healthcare provision as mandated by the law for anyone working over 30 hrs a week. Companies are cutting hours from full timers and hiring PT people to fill the voids.
    People are suffering because they have less bring home pay and are now required to purchase a healthcare plan with money they dont have because their hours have been cut.
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the need for employer purchased/provided healthcare under the ACA depends on the number of full time employees a company has, full time being defined as those working a standard 40 hr work week. The unions may be coming to the realization that many companies may be looking to move their full time employees to 39 hrs, or 38, 37, etc. in order to reduce their number of "full time" employees, thus eliminating a significant cost to their bottom lines. If these unions lose their employer provided/supplemented health care, that would do significant harm to the level of health care insurance those employees have going forward.
    People familiar with low end employment understand that restricting hours to avoid benefits has been going on for a hell of a lot longer than the ACA or even obama's political history. The ACA did not make that happen. The overwhelming pool of workers in comparison to the amount of worker hours needed by a company did that. I remember having trouble with that sort of thing back int he early 90's and it was pretty much SOP back then. being from Canada you may not be aware of how employment works in america.

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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    I understand where he is coming from.

    Companies can not afford to meet the requirements for healthcare provision as mandated by the law for anyone working over 30 hrs a week. Companies are cutting hours from full timers and hiring PT people to fill the voids.
    People are suffering because they have less bring home pay and are now required to purchase a healthcare plan with money they dont have because their hours have been cut.
    this was happening long before the ACA. Companies often hire their low end workers PT or through contracts to avoid benefits they established for full time workers. There are some of those benefits required by law, and others that were self imposed by business to keep their higher end employees. plus it does give managers more flexibility to have a larger pool of part time employees to call upon for emergencies. The ACA may have slightly increased the problem, but it was very prevalent long before the ACA came into existence. That is a lie being told to you by corporate america and the insurance companies.

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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    this was happening long before the ACA. Companies often hire their low end workers PT or through contracts to avoid benefits they established for full time workers. There are some of those benefits required by law, and others that were self imposed by business to keep their higher end employees. plus it does give managers more flexibility to have a larger pool of part time employees to call upon for emergencies. The ACA may have slightly increased the problem, but it was very prevalent long before the ACA came into existence. That is a lie being told to you by corporate america and the insurance companies.
    I believe that the definition of full time (max hours per week) changed under PPACA and PPACA rules also change based on the total number of employees. While I agree that PPACA did not start this trend it certainly made it no better. Mandating added employee benefit costs is certainly not going to help any business do better.
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I believe that the definition of full time (max hours per week) changed under PPACA and PPACA rules also change based on the total number of employees. While I agree that PPACA did not start this trend it certainly made it no better. Mandating added employee benefit costs is certainly not going to help any business do better.
    They might have been able to actually promote full time employment through the employer mandate if they included all workers. Then you would actually save money on hiring full time employees over a lot more part time employees. But the system would still suck ass considering you are filtering socialism through a capitalist enterprise.

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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    They might have been able to actually promote full time employment through the employer mandate if they included all workers. Then you would actually save money on hiring full time employees over a lot more part time employees. But the system would still suck ass considering you are filtering socialism through a capitalist enterprise.
    That is exactly why Obama has "postponed" that stupid job killing employer mandate part until after the 2014 elections. Making any changes to PPACA, via normal congressional channels, is not likely since the House will demand blood to do so. King Barrack will simply do what he can to minimize the damage of the "bad parts" administratively (the labor unions will force him to). With the massive complexity of the PPACA law he can probably do a lot of alteraton without anyone actually noticing, especially since the press will not look into it - look how much he has changed current immigration law simply by making its enforcement "dreamy".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the need for employer purchased/provided healthcare under the ACA depends on the number of full time employees a company has, full time being defined as those working a standard 40 hr work week. The unions may be coming to the realization that many companies may be looking to move their full time employees to 39 hrs, or 38, 37, etc. in order to reduce their number of "full time" employees, thus eliminating a significant cost to their bottom lines. If these unions lose their employer provided/supplemented health care, that would do significant harm to the level of health care insurance those employees have going forward.
    Enjoying socialist healthcare john? Maybe you should try our republaromney care?
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    Re: Union Bosses: 'ObamaCare Will Destroy Health of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    I was listening to some talk show on our local radio station and they were talking about this. One of the callers made a good point about the law and the implementation of this law.

    With all the goings on and problems coming into focus (many of those issues were being screamed about but ignored by those wanting this bill to pass) HOW the administration is implementing this law, with waivers, exemptions and delays, why did Congress pass a law if it is not being followed by the Executive Branch. The law specifically gives dates that must be met...by law. This administration is handing out exemptions to those laws.

    The Constitution says that the President shall enforce the laws it does not say that the President shall hand out exemptions to those laws.

    Issue #1 for me is that the law is the law, like it or not. If they werent in such a damn hurry in pushing this bill through so fast and done it right the first time, they wouldnt be sitting there with their thumbs up their butts handing out exemptions to their law.
    Something needs to be done about insurance companies, or to get them completely out of the mix. That was a huge thing at the beginning of Obama's first term. unfortunately he has no spine, and he had to pass something no matter how much it did not work to prove he had a legacy. He was not willing to go to bat for his own ideas of government health care, so he let the republicans do with the idea what they wanted to which was this crazy stuff that doesn't work. given obama is pretty much a republican stooge it is not surprising to find the bait and switch is a huge part of his administration. He got it passed and he could say he got something passed. he also guaranteed his insurance company masters that they would stay in business and get a lot of new customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnukingfutz View Post
    Issue #2 for me is the exemptions themselves. The President handing out exemptions to laws of our country is insane. If he does this, what is to stop this President or any future President from exempting certain provisions of other laws...even temporarily.
    Nothing considering it is actually within the executive's power to decide how to implement the law. he is not the first or the last one that will do these things. Again, bitching about obama is avoiding the problem which would be in this case that the executive has this power. of course, i am not really sure what you want done because giving congress the power to administer the executive branch would screw things up much worse. Congress makes the laws, the president enforces, and the judicial interprets. This is US government 101. Since the executive gets to enforce the laws they also get to decide how they are enforced. If this bothers you then you need to work on changing the fundamentals of the constitution, and probably physics as there are finite resources you can apply to enforcement.

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