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Thread: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

  1. #141
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Run a household that way for 6-10 years and you won't feel all giddy just because you didn't add as much to your debt this month as you did last month.
    The idea that government should be "ran like a household" is ridiculous.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  2. #142
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Not all households are "Average Joe" households. The threat of job loss is no different for a household than the threat of recession is for a nation. In fact, a job loss can be a lot easier to fix than a recession and the loss of income can be, proportionally, a lot less because of that. No, you've got to find other reasons to disassociate a "household budget" with a government budget if you want to assert there is no analogy that is meaningful.
    No, but we are not talking about the uber rich.

    We are talking about comparing the economy of a household/company to a sovereign nation. Fact is the only way a sovereign nation can loose all its income is by becoming Somalia. Now on the flipside it is pretty easy for a household/company to loose all its income... due to sickness, jail, or a multitude of reasons.

    It always amazes me that in the last 5-7 years of kitchen household economics spreading from the US right, that they actually get away with this lunacy. For example... average Joe, who has a mortgage and a job, has a debt vs income ratio in the many hundreds of %... but a sovereign nation hitting 100%.. panic, the world is ending.. Brain dead economic theory I say.

    Fact is, and always has been, the economics of a sovereign nation are far far different than your average household/company. In no way could a household/company go with 40+ years of deficits like the US has.. and quite a few other countries... but a country can.
    PeteEU

  3. #143
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    We are racking up debt.
    Unemployment is still high.

    Sooner or later, that's got to stop.
    Say's who? The U.S. government is a perpetual entity with unlimited funding capabilities.


    You can't borrow exponentially.
    You certainly can if you are repaying in inflated dollars. The key is to ensure (periods where economic growth > deficit growth) ≥ (periods where economic growth < deficit growth) is the long term average.
    Last edited by Kushinator; 07-12-13 at 02:03 PM.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  4. #144
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    No, but we are not talking about the uber rich.

    We are talking about comparing the economy of a household/company to a sovereign nation. Fact is the only way a sovereign nation can loose all its income is by becoming Somalia. Now on the flipside it is pretty easy for a household/company to loose all its income... due to sickness, jail, or a multitude of reasons.

    It always amazes me that in the last 5-7 years of kitchen household economics spreading from the US right, that they actually get away with this lunacy. For example... average Joe, who has a mortgage and a job, has a debt vs income ratio in the many hundreds of %... but a sovereign nation hitting 100%.. panic, the world is ending.. Brain dead economic theory I say.

    Fact is, and always has been, the economics of a sovereign nation are far far different than your average household/company. In no way could a household/company go with 40+ years of deficits like the US has.. and quite a few other countries... but a country can.
    Debt vs. income ratio is as important to countries as it is to the average Joe. A nation's credit depends on them keeping a reasonable debt to income ratio. Ours keeps growing the wrong direction. That's not a good thing for us any more than it would be for a household. Of course, with a household, it's actually the debt to ASSET ratio that's truly critical. Having a debt to income ration of 2:1 isn't a big deal if we're talking about a house and car. It's a HUGE deal if it's just debt with no assets to show for it and that's what our government's deficit spending is like. We can't just sell the asset behind that debt and BAM, we're all squeaky clean again. No, it's more like credit card debt except the interest rate is a lot beter.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  5. #145
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Unemployment is still high.



    Say's who? The U.S. government is a perpetual entity with unlimited funding capabilities.




    You certainly can if you are repaying in inflated dollars. The key is to ensure (periods where economic growth > deficit growth) ≥ (periods where economic growth < deficit growth) is the long term average.
    Just checked. The market is so impressed with this record budget surplus news that the DOW is down 41 points right now.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #146
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Debt vs. income ratio is as important to countries as it is to the average Joe. A nation's credit depends on them keeping a reasonable debt to income ratio. Ours keeps growing the wrong direction. That's not a good thing for us any more than it would be for a household. Of course, with a household, it's actually the debt to ASSET ratio that's truly critical. Having a debt to income ration of 2:1 isn't a big deal if we're talking about a house and car. It's a HUGE deal if it's just debt with no assets to show for it and that's what our government's deficit spending is like. We can't just sell the asset behind that debt and BAM, we're all squeaky clean again. No, it's more like credit card debt except the interest rate is a lot beter.
    Well when the economy improves spending will go down (less need for safety nets) and revenue will increase (greater economic activity). So using a household debt situation (which I hate doing) it's no different than someone that has a seasonally dependent job borrowing offseason and paying it down during the busy time. Like a waiter in some beach town or something.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Just checked. The market is so impressed with this record budget surplus news that the DOW is down 41 points right now.
    Stronger economic expectations have been factored in months ago. I know it isn't ideologically convenient at this point, but hey. Can't argue with the fact that the U.S. market capitalization reached an all-time high in May 2013, bounced, and now is back.

    djia.jpg
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  8. #148
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well when the economy improves spending will go down (less need for safety nets) and revenue will increase (greater economic activity). So using a household debt situation (which I hate doing) it's no different than someone that has a seasonally dependent job borrowing offseason and paying it down during the busy time. Like a waiter in some beach town or something.
    All except that there's no "paying it down". What it's like is ALWAYS spending more than you take in but celebrating because your overspending isn't quite as bad as the record overspending you've been doing for the last 4 years.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  9. #149
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    Stronger economic expectations have been factored in months ago. I know it isn't ideologically convenient at this point, but hey. Can't argue with the fact that the U.S. market capitalization reached an all-time high in May 2013.
    Just sayin' that this "surprise surplus" isn't real economic news. It's not "a sign". It didn't have any positive impact on the markets at all. What was it really? A manufactured talking point for a presidency that is racked with scandal.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  10. #150
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    Re: Surprise! Huge US Budget Surplus Shatters Record

    Quote Originally Posted by rcart76 View Post
    You maybe right that the black turnout will
    not be as high if the candidate was any other candidate but Hilary. We love the Clintons. If Obama didn't run I think Hilary would have still won because of the woman's vote.

    A little advice to the GOP. If you want to dilute the black vote, stop ***king around with voting rights. We still have a bitter taste in our mouth from the 50s and that is a very sensitive subject. Honestly, I think that is what hurt you guys in the 2012 election. It was a self inflicted womb because you fire up the base.

    Personally I am still shock that you guys are messing with women's right when you know the democrats are putting up the first woman presidential nominee in 2016 who is a very strong candidate. If Hilary is the democratic candidate, then you guys are going to destroyed with the women vote.
    WOW....

    No what hurt us in 2012 was Cons stayed home.

    The voting rights act was FILLIBUSTERED by the Democrats in 1964 and the latest decision by SCOTUS was long over due.

    Hillary, the person so incompetent she couldn't defend a New American Embassy in a ever increasing terrorist ridden Benghazi.

    Hillary, so lacking of a fundamental moral core she would lie to the face of the Father who lost his Son in Benghazi. " We'll arrest the man who made that video ".

    The first time she opens here shrill lieing mouth she'll lose supporters.

    The womans issue ? The " War on Women " ? A false narrative drummed up by Democrats for idiots easily suscepatble to attitudes and empty charges and low information voters.

    I hope they run Hillary, and I hope she wins because once Obama's done with this economy it won't be salvagable.

    The next President needs to be of the same corrupt ideology that got us where were at right now.

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