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Thread: Democrats Poised to Limit Filibusters, Angering G.O.P.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The filibuster is beyond idiotic in the current form. The idiotic thing is, that it only requires a 51 votes to get something passed, but 60 votes to be allowed to vote.. that is beyond twisted and frankly anti-democratic. The sick thing is, that one or two people have the power to keep stuff off the table even though a large majority of Senators agree on it. And that power has been abused many times, especially by the GOP the last 5 years, and especially from certain far right wing GOP wackos and often for personal gain. It has to stop.
    Isn't giving both Alaska and California two senators anti-democratic? The Senate is anti-democratic by design.
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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yet we have many posters on this forum that see the same "nonsense" in Texas as completely justified. You don't that think the politcal party invloved makes any difference do you? Obviously all bills/appointments should simply be rubber stamped if one party gets a one seat advantage - that is the "correct" solution is it not? Floor debate and actually reading bills is a silly waste of time, an efficient gov't simply passes everything proposed by the majority party.
    I am cool with the republicans actually getting up and doing that. The problem is that no one is required to make any effort which means that there is no reason to stick your neck out and actually do a filibuster to make your point. The whole thing can still be there, but let us make them work to avoid doing the work they are supposed to be doing for the country. This goes for either party. If it is that horrible that they need to oppose it then they can actually work at opposing it. I have a feeling this would limit the amount of filibustering and illustrate to the people when their reps are either fighting the good fight, or just being obstructionist to the other party. I may not agree with rand paul's claims, but at least he did it and through doing it gave us some statements we can look at and his state can hold him to those ideas in the next election. When they silently oppose a bill we have no statement at all to bring up in their next election and that is when we get things that just slide by.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by wbcoleman View Post
    Isn't giving both Alaska and California two senators anti-democratic? The Senate is anti-democratic by design.
    Actually it is not. The Senate by design is not the house of the people, the House is. And what does that have to do with one or two men/women blocking legislation or nominations, while a big majority agree?

    People tend to forget that this filibuster rule was put in place by the Senate it self, not by the constitution.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Democrats Poised to Limit Filibusters, Angering G.O.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/us...e.html?hp&_r=0



    While the constant filibustering is certainly not a positive thing, the danger as everybody well knows is when the power shifts to the other party.



    One could certainly make the argument that making it your policy to filibuster everything the other side proposes as a means of undermining their president has "irrevocably changed the nature of the Senate." The Republicans have wielded the filibuster recklessly, and if the Democrats remove or even just weaken the power of the filibuster the party in charge will be able to act even more recklessly. But temperance has not been a powerful rallying cry in the Republican party for some time now and they are not likely to relax their use of the filibuster soon.
    This belief Americans of all levels have that "changing the rules" will make a meaningful impact on the system needs to go.

    All of the rules in the world can't save you from bad spirited and immoral people. If people believe short term partisan gains are more important than functional government to the extent that they could no longer fathom a difference between the two, than your country will fail no matter what its laws and regulations are. The overall badness and evil that rules society will find a way to pervert the new rules.
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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    I am cool with the republicans actually getting up and doing that. The problem is that no one is required to make any effort which means that there is no reason to stick your neck out and actually do a filibuster to make your point. The whole thing can still be there, but let us make them work to avoid doing the work they are supposed to be doing for the country. This goes for either party. If it is that horrible that they need to oppose it then they can actually work at opposing it. I have a feeling this would limit the amount of filibustering and illustrate to the people when their reps are either fighting the good fight, or just being obstructionist to the other party. I may not agree with rand paul's claims, but at least he did it and through doing it gave us some statements we can look at and his state can hold him to those ideas in the next election. When they silently oppose a bill we have no statement at all to bring up in their next election and that is when we get things that just slide by.
    That is all well and good for keeping the minority party "honest", but addresses only the minor "abuses" of the minority party. The other side of that coin is the ability of the majority party to block anything that they don't like from even making it to the floor at all. Simply block any bill/amendment that they want to and "poof", it disappears, never to be seen again. Simply Google "Harry Reid blocks" and you may be amazed at the power of the Senate majority leader.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Democrats Poised to Limit Filibusters, Angering G.O.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/12/us...e.html?hp&_r=0



    While the constant filibustering is certainly not a positive thing, the danger as everybody well knows is when the power shifts to the other party.



    One could certainly make the argument that making it your policy to filibuster everything the other side proposes as a means of undermining their president has "irrevocably changed the nature of the Senate." The Republicans have wielded the filibuster recklessly, and if the Democrats remove or even just weaken the power of the filibuster the party in charge will be able to act even more recklessly. But temperance has not been a powerful rallying cry in the Republican party for some time now and they are not likely to relax their use of the filibuster soon.
    They are like fourth graders except they take themselves much more seriously than fourth graders.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    I don't really understand why any of you support passing things with only 51% support. What about the other 49%? I think we should not be passing any bills that don't have at least a majority of both parties support.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    I don't really understand why any of you support passing things with only 51% support. What about the other 49%? I think we should not be passing any bills that don't have at least a majority of both parties support.
    We wouldn't have a functioning government at that point.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    The only thing it is functionally doing is passing laws and bills behind our backs so those in power can do whatever they want. Can't get much less functional than that.

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    Re: Showdown Nears in Senate Over Filibusters Change

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually it is not. The Senate by design is not the house of the people, the House is. And what does that have to do with one or two men/women blocking legislation or nominations, while a big majority agree?

    People tend to forget that this filibuster rule was put in place by the Senate it self, not by the constitution.
    My point is simply to refute the notion that the filibuster rule ought to be criticized on the basis of it being "anti-democratic".
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