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Thread: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

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    Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    WASHINGTON (AP) Divided on immigration, House Republicans bluntly challenged President Barack Obama's willingness to secure the nation's borders on Wednesday, and appeared unimpressed by George W. Bush's advice to carry a "benevolent spirit" into a debate that includes a possible path to citizenship for millions.
    Like him or hate him, George Bush did all the right things when it came to Hispanic voters. He courted them, and even spoke their language. Left unsaid in the chaotic and crazy election of 2000 is the fact that Hispanic voters carried Bush over Gore, as he got 65% of the Hispanic vote in Florida. As for the national vote, Bush did well there too, and even better in 2004, when he carried 44% of the Hispanic vote nationally.

    And face it, Republicans. What are we going to do about illegals today? Ship 'em all back? Won't work. There are way too many illegals to make that work in any way, shape, or form. When Reagan gave illegals a path to citizenship, he could see that. Only problem is that we did not take care of the second part of the problem, which is preventing illegals from coming in. So we are back to the same point we were when Reagan legalized illegals. So, Republicans, here we are at the same crossroads Reagan arrived at. Are you going to be pragmatic, and provide a path to citizenship, while tightening the borders so that we are not at this point again 20 years from now? You know it is going to have to be done this way because it is the only practical way right now. And, with providing a pathway to citizenship, we will also be providing the Treasury with more tax money, which will help us down the road, as more citizens who were once illegal are now paying their fair share to be here.

    You have two choices:

    1) Keep doing what you are doing now and continue to lose elections at the national level.

    2) Be Reaganesque, by getting this bill done, and begin to recapture the Hispanic vote you lost after Bush left office, and have a decent shot of regaining the presidency.

    The ball is in your court. And yes, Bush is 100% right on this.

    Article is here.
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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    And face it, Republicans. What are we going to do about illegals today? Ship 'em all back? Won't work. There are way too many illegals to make that work in any way, shape, or form.
    Over and over again this falsehood gets debunked. Yet whenever there's a thread about illegals it rears it's ugly head. Yes, there have been several workable ways, beside amnesty, that have been proposed to rid ourselves of our current crop of illegals. Primary among them is to disincentivise them on the services and employment front and to actually enforce existing law.

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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    I believe what you say is true but the GOP is too frightened about not pleasing the Tea Party.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    This country would stop functioning if we enforced the laws. The entire agriculture industry to start with. Many others as well. Americans won't take those jobs, too much work, too little reward. So unless you're planning to force people into these jobs and bus them there, those illegals play an important role.

    That's why Bush and Obama agree on this. We might as well legalize them since we certainly can not and will not get rid of them. Seems unfair and ridiculous, I know. But it is what it is. Both politically and realistically. Or just kick the can one more time...


    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Over and over again this falsehood gets debunked. Yet whenever there's a thread about illegals it rears it's ugly head. Yes, there have been several workable ways, beside amnesty, that have been proposed to rid ourselves of our current crop of illegals. Primary among them is to disincentivise them on the services and employment front and to actually enforce existing law.

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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob N View Post
    I believe what you say is true but the GOP is too frightened about not pleasing the Tea Party.
    The GOP gives the Tea Party a sort of token approval at best. Seriously, where are they going to go? Republicans lost three Senate seats in 2010 because of Tea Party candidates. Harry Reid can thank the Tea Party for allowing him to keep his job. No, for the GOP the Tea Party is kind of like that loud mouthed uncle that shows up drunk at Christmas but it would cause too much of a family uproar if you asked him to leave so you endure it... with that fake smile on your face.
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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Over and over again this falsehood gets debunked. Yet whenever there's a thread about illegals it rears it's ugly head. Yes, there have been several workable ways, beside amnesty, that have been proposed to rid ourselves of our current crop of illegals. Primary among them is to disincentivise them on the services and employment front and to actually enforce existing law.
    That would guarantee that Republicans will continue to lose national elections. Here is an excerpt from an abstract from the James A Baker institute:

    One polar solution to the problem is to simply deny access to the labor market for undocumented individuals. Such strict enforcement is certainly feasible. Undocumented individuals, unable to find work, will probably eventually return to their countries of origin. This may be an effective policy. However, this policy, which can be viewed as starving people until they leave, will be viewed by many as too harsh. Further, vigorous enforcement of the immigration laws would be disruptive for many industries and is not likely to be politically viable. An alternative to the policy of self - deportation is to create a path to citizenship for all documented individuals in the United States
    You can view the entire abstract here, in PDF format, as it provides a pragmatic and common sense approach to the illegal alien problem.
    Last edited by danarhea; 07-10-13 at 10:10 PM.
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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    Like him or hate him, George Bush did all the right things when it came to Hispanic voters. He courted them, and even spoke their language. Left unsaid in the chaotic and crazy election of 2000 is the fact that Hispanic voters carried Bush over Gore, as he got 65% of the Hispanic vote in Florida. As for the national vote, Bush did well there too, and even better in 2004, when he carried 44% of the Hispanic vote nationally.

    And face it, Republicans. What are we going to do about illegals today? Ship 'em all back? Won't work. There are way too many illegals to make that work in any way, shape, or form. When Reagan gave illegals a path to citizenship, he could see that. Only problem is that we did not take care of the second part of the problem, which is preventing illegals from coming in. So we are back to the same point we were when Reagan legalized illegals. So, Republicans, here we are at the same crossroads Reagan arrived at. Are you going to be pragmatic, and provide a path to citizenship, while tightening the borders so that we are not at this point again 20 years from now? You know it is going to have to be done this way because it is the only practical way right now. And, with providing a pathway to citizenship, we will also be providing the Treasury with more tax money, which will help us down the road, as more citizens who were once illegal are now paying their fair share to be here.

    You have two choices:

    1) Keep doing what you are doing now and continue to lose elections at the national level.

    2) Be Reaganesque, by getting this bill done, and begin to recapture the Hispanic vote you lost after Bush left office, and have a decent shot of regaining the presidency.

    The ball is in your court. And yes, Bush is 100% right on this.

    Article is here.
    Contrary to what pro-illegal scum keep saying we do not need amnesty, earned citizenship, dream act or any other form of amnesty.Nor is the only solution a mass round up(which has been twice in the past and was really successful) So I prefer the actual choice. This would encourage illegals to leave and rat traitors to quit hiring illegals.

    1.Crack down on the scum who hire illegals.Treat them no different than we do drug dealers and other criminals who profit from and or use their money for illegal activities.

    2. In order to get any ID or driver's license you present a birth certificate, green card, or certificate of naturalization and social security card.After that require a state issued ID or driver's license in order to the following-

    -enroll yourself into school
    -enroll your minor kids into school
    -apply for welfare,food stamps,section 8 housing and any other tax payer assistance for yourself and or your children
    -get a business license,fishing/hunting permit,building permit, license to practice law, food handlers permit, gun license(in states that require a permit to buy a gun),concealed carry permit(in states that require a license to conceal carry) or any other tax payer funded service
    -open a bank account, cash a check, use a credit/debit/pre-paid card, apply for a loan,or wire money.
    -rent,borrow,lease or buy property
    -rent,borrow,lease or buy a motor vehicle.
    -get legal documents for yourself or your children.
    -get utilities

    3.Mandate E-verify for every employer.

    4.Repeal part of the immigration and nationality act of 1965 that allows for the chain migration of relatives other than spouse or minor children.This would virtually eliminate anchor babies.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    This country would stop functioning if we enforced the laws. The entire agriculture industry to start with. Many others as well. Americans won't take those jobs, too much work, too little reward. So unless you're planning to force people into these jobs and bus them there, those illegals play an important role.

    That's why Bush and Obama agree on this. We might as well legalize them since we certainly can not and will not get rid of them. Seems unfair and ridiculous, I know. But it is what it is. Both politically and realistically. Or just kick the can one more time...
    I disagree entirely with that first part. We've had aggie visas for decades. And migrant workers rights have long been established. But then, as things were getting better, the SCOTUS decided we were on the hook to educate migrant workers children. What would you do as a parent - overstay your visa so your kid could continue in an American school of course. But the majority still went home at the end of the season and came back the next, all on visa. To add insult to those folks who followed the law, we gave all the overstayers and just plain gatecrashers the ability to stay and become citizens.

    There is a positive way forward that does not include amnesty and preserves our agricultural industry. That's the problem with all our leaders, they don't seem to want to do what we want them to do. One would think that all we'd have to do is replace X politician. But that doesn't seem to work. Conservative, liberal, whatever. Once they take office they somehow become committed to not do what we want done in certain areas. Bush was a prime example.
    Last edited by clownboy; 07-10-13 at 10:52 PM.

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    Re: Bush nudges GOP on immigration as lawmakers meet

    One polar solution to the problem is to simply deny access to the labor market for undocumented individuals. Such strict enforcement is certainly feasible. Undocumented individuals, unable to find work, will probably eventually return to their countries of origin. This may be an effective policy. However, this policy, which can be viewed as starving people until they leave, will be viewed by many as too harsh. Further, vigorous enforcement of the immigration laws would be disruptive for many industries and is not likely to be politically viable. An alternative to the policy of self - deportation is to create a path to citizenship for all documented individuals in the United States
    You see, I, like I believe a lot of people in this country, agree with the bolded part. THAT is precisely what we tell our politicians we want. EVERY freakin' time. Instead they woos out and chose the path of the unbolded part. Heck with that. I feel about this the same way I feel about sales taxes in Oregon. I'll vote no every time and against any politician that suggests it. Because of folks like me Oregon still has no sales tax.
    Last edited by clownboy; 07-10-13 at 10:51 PM.

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