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Thread: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:44]

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Hi Polgara

    I'm right with you.

    My son, who is an EMT, sent me a text message last Saturday from his rig. He stated he was transporting a newborn baby to another facility, along with a medical team. The baby was in a portable NiCU device. Natal Intensive Care Unit. He said the baby was reported to be 23 weeks old, and 1.5 pounds. He had never seen such a small baby before.

    Makes one think, doesn't it?
    Good morning, ocean515.

    It sure does! If possible, could you keep us updated on how that baby is doing? I don't know what the survival odds are for a healthy 6-month fetus, but stranger things have happened that are treated as modern-day miracles, if all goes well. :

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    The late term abortion issue is a dead horse- name the states that allow late term abortions, how many late term abortions are done? 20 weeks is the recognized cut-off for legal abortions.

    Viability is a tough call, many premies born 'naturally' have poorly developed organs and a short life filled with intense medical problems. At 19 weeks the fetus is 8" long, and at 23 weeks the air sacs are starting in the lungs, the fetus is just under a foot long. Brain development is still ongoing- difficult to say the fetus is viable.

    What something looks like isn't a very good indicator of what it actually is. An under 20 week old fetus may look human but it isn't capable of living as one until later.
    Good afternoon, notquiteright.

    for a thoughtful and informative response. That's one reason I like this site...I learn something new and interesting every day!

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, ocean515.

    It sure does! If possible, could you keep us updated on how that baby is doing? I don't know what the survival odds are for a healthy 6-month fetus, but stranger things have happened that are treated as modern-day miracles, if all goes well. :
    I'll try. I saw my son last night and I asked about it. He didn't know. He tranports patients all over Southern California, so I don't know how often he goes to the same facilities.

    He shares the same sentiments on the issue of abortion as you and I do. I could tell he was pretty blown away by how small the baby was, but more importantly, by how, I don't know how to put it, how "complete" it was. It was just really tiny. He did say the NiCU was doing the breathing for it.

    I'll let you know if he learns anything.

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, humbolt.

    Fortunately, I haven't yet had to face making that decision, but my first instinct would be NO. I'm not certain what criteria is used to determine who is eligible for admitting procedures, though. Do all hospitals use the same standards?

    Did Gosnell have privileges at any hospital?

    The horror story on Yahoo yesterday about the woman who awoke from a coma to find that hospital doctors were about to begin harvesting her vital organs does point out some deficiencies in the system, though! A book I read titled "Dead Doctors Don't Lie" sure scared me enough to question the credentials of any health care professional I might choose!
    It is a wise precaution. I think that Planned Parenthood certainly should make such facilities available. I don't like that the state is involved, but I have to say it's a reasonable requirement. If my child was at such a clinic, I would certainly want that eventuality addressed. The rate of complication is not significantly high, but it's 100% if it happens to you.

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I'll try. I saw my son last night and I asked about it. He didn't know. He tranports patients all over Southern California, so I don't know how often he goes to the same facilities.

    He shares the same sentiments on the issue of abortion as you and I do. I could tell he was pretty blown away by how small the baby was, but more importantly, by how, I don't know how to put it, how "complete" it was. It was just really tiny. He did say the NiCU was doing the breathing for it.

    I'll let you know if he learns anything.



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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Why should I accept your medical assessment of abortion procedures over actual doctors? Because I've yet to see a single medical professional say this a medically necessary change to the procedure.
    I didn't make a medical assessment, and you certainly don't have to accept anything I say. I'm not talking about the procedure itself to start with, but I am talking about medical recourse for a patient within a reasonably accessible area. Statistically speaking, I'd say you have a point, except that we're talking about women's health here, and not statistics. A 6% complication rate isn't statistically significant unless you happen to be in that 6%. I would think that an outfit such as Planned Parenthood, who specifically provides services for women's health, would take such interest in providing a relatively simple service in keeping with their stated goals and representations.

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I didn't make a medical assessment, and you certainly don't have to accept anything I say. I'm not talking about the procedure itself to start with, but I am talking about medical recourse for a patient within a reasonably accessible area. Statistically speaking, I'd say you have a point, except that we're talking about women's health here, and not statistics. A 6% complication rate isn't statistically significant unless you happen to be in that 6%. I would think that an outfit such as Planned Parenthood, who specifically provides services for women's health, would take such interest in providing a relatively simple service in keeping with their stated goals and representations.
    The fact that complications exist doesn't mean that the hospital admitting privileges are medically necessary. The nature and severity of the complications, and how much of that information needs to be briefed in detail to the hospital, are what really determines whether this is necessary. To take the extreme example, why not require all abortions to be performed at a hospital with an ER? There could be complications! Hey, there could be complications during an eye exam, so let's do the same with every eye exam... unnecessary, right?

    I've never heard a doctor express that they believe this is a useful precaution. And let's face it, safety of the woman is not the reason Wisconsin Republicans are pushing this bill.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    How in the world is requiring an ultrasound making it nearly impossible to get an abortion? Spin alert!
    From the article:

    U.S. District Judge William Conley granted the order following a hearing in a lawsuit filed Friday by Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin and Affiliated Medical Services. It alleged the requirement would unconstitutionally restrict the availability of abortions in the state, violates the U.S. Constitution’s due process guarantee and unconstitutionally treats doctors who perform abortions differently from those who perform other procedures.

    The restraining order will remain in place pending a fuller hearing July 17. In his ruling, Conley said “there is a troubling lack of justification for the hospital admitting privileges requirement.” He said the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states must prove that restrictions on abortion rights must be reasonably aimed at preserving the mother’s health.

    The justification for the ruling has nothing to do with ultrasounds and everything to do with the "admitting privilege" requirement does not seem to meet a compelling government need. In other words the rule is arbitrary and the government IS NOT allowed to make arbitrary rules.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    I'm actually staunchly pro-second.
    And yet you parrot the same type of mentality and arguments as the anti-second amendment crowd. How wonderfully hypocritical. So you just support Big Government, intrusion upon individuals rights, and the expansion of the state when it suits your personal emotional feelings. Great to know.

    One would think that such agencies as those who provide abortion services would require such things on their own - without the need for government to step in at all. They certainly would if they were concerned about the overall health of the women involved.
    All well and good, and I'd have zero issue if a place decided to CHOOSE to make this their own practice when dealing with abortions.

    But unlike you, I'm not going to empower the government to get further involved into the exchange of PRIVATE services and further into the decision making process of medical procedures all in the name of what "feels good".

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    Re: Federal judge temporarily blocks new Wisconsin abortion law..................[W:4

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake McHugh View Post
    I highly doubt the statist and big government critics are afraid of that.
    I don't really care what the "statist" or "big government" critics are afraid of, I listed what I would be afraid of in terms of something like this. And, more importantly...the mere fact that "statist" or "big government" people may agree with the RESULTS, even if they disagree on the reason those results should be met, is not a reason to abandon principles unless ones principles isn't based upon a particular ideology but rather based on the notion of being "against" whatever another side is "for" with no deeper thought in it than that.

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