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Thread: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

  1. #51
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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    We're not being given a fully-honest, completely-factual representation.
    Of course we aren't. The NY Daily "News" is a tabloid that specializes in sex scandals and borderline conspiracy theories. The OP may as well be using the Weekly World News as a source.
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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Of course we aren't. The NY Daily "News" is a tabloid that specializes in sex scandals and borderline conspiracy theories. The OP may as well be using the Weekly World News as a source.
    why is it so hard to believe Planed Parenthoods founder Margaret Sanger's that the left so gloriously embraced advocated for just this type of action to keep more "undesirables" to be brought into this world

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    why is it so hard to believe Planed Parenthoods founder Margaret Sanger's that the left so gloriously embraced advocated for just this type of action to keep more "undesirables" to be brought into this world
    The irrelevance of this statement is off the charts.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Reversible sterilization should be standard and mandatory for all prisoners and anyone applying for welfare benefits. Once someone proves they are capable and financially able to support children, then it can be reversed. For rapist and child molesters, it should be done by manual castration for males, non reversible. For females convicted of offenses where the state will simply take any child from them at birth, then permanent sterilization should be done.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Its not correct to say they were "forced" to be sterilized, as force was not used in this instance. Rather, it is an example of government agents using their positions of authority to pressure individuals in an unacceptable manner. The potential for abuse from government based sterilization was demonstrated during the eugenics era and there needs to be safeguards to prevent abuse. Prisoners are especially vulnerable given their situation.
    Kind of tripped up on your own hypocrisy there.

    Oopsie.
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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Kind of tripped up on your own hypocrisy there.

    Oopsie.
    No, its simply that I dislike inaccurate sensationalist headlines in addition to human rights violations. The coercive authority used by the prison officials do not meet the standard for "forced sterilization", especially given the historical implications of the term. Their actions are still unacceptable of course, but I believe in holding them accountable only for their specific misdeeds without embellishment.

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gotta love the headline. Without State approval. Individual approval, apparently, being less of a consideration.

    Hah, exactly. Apparently it would be A-OK for lib folk so long as the State had approved.

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcogito View Post
    I’m not advocating the woman have the children. I think it is foolish for her to keep having children. I am saying the State should not have the authority to force an adult to undergo a surgical procedure.



    No, illogical would be if I claimed to want to live in a free society while at the same time advocating that the State should has dominion over our bodies.





    Unfortunately most Americans are not familiar with the traditional definition of libertarianism or the definition used by most of the world and assume it is what the Libertarian Party platform states. Since a sizeable portion of the membership of this forum are Americans (I am as well) I use the lean “Libertarian-Left” to differentiate myself from the Americanized version of the definition. Do a little reading on the subject. You might find it interesting.
    Should the State have the authority to force us to pay for those children?
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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I can find nothing wrong with the concept, only the execution. Everything has been done badly before and everything is a slippery slope. So, no changes should ever be made in anything because everything leads somewhere bad?
    Eugenics was a ****ing abomination.You can't look at what happened say "well if only they had done this differently, it would have turned out better". There weren't any "bad apples" in the bunch, the whole system was monstrous right from the very beginning.

    Look at what your government is up to now simply because the technology exists to do it. If only we hadn't invented cameras or the internet, we'd be so much more free. So, for my postulations, I presume it will be done correctly and that it will advance society, not impair it.
    Having the government spy on you is wrong, but its not even close to violating the most basic rights to bodily sovereignty. I am willing to accept the power of the camera and internet because they are such useful tools that they are worth the risk of violating privacy. Eugenics has never demonstrated any positive benefits in the slightest and the consequences of abuse are horrible.

    Crime is a true melting pot so at least no single race or creed will be chosen.
    This is exactly the sort of statement that demonstrates the evil thinking of eugenicists. You don't give a **** about genetics. You'd never go to the richest most powerful man in the world and say "you are a carrier for a horrible genetic disorder that will ruin your children, time to get sterilized". No, instead you are a like a serial killer who chooses your victims simply because they are too weak to fight back. People in prison, the mentally ill, the destitute, unpopular minorities, its all about finding someone who society won't put up a fuss when you abuse them.

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    Re: Nearly 250 female inmates sterilized in California prisons without state approval

    The state has an infinite number of powers that are imposed on every citizen, both individually and collectively. Virtually every moment of your life is either observed or regulated. Wether it's the origin label on your underpants, the amount or areas of flesh you expose, the substances you ingest, the medications you take, weapons of defense, your rate of travel or the volume of your pontifications is limited by laws and regulations. Along with all the rules, comes your rights - the way others must treat you, who must hire you and a slew of entitlements, many of which are paid for by your fellow societal members (e.g. welfare, food stamps, Section 8) are regulated by various strictures.

    Some of your "freedoms" are not just regulated, but exist in a state of flux. What is abortion? Freedom to choose or deprivation of a future citizens life function? We have yet to come to a societal agreement.

    Let's face it. "Freedom" is a bull**** word that we like to toss around because it sounds so noble. It's the word of politics, not reality. You don't have an iota of freedom except where the state has chosen to permit it.

    If one can accept the reality of this, and recognizes that all freedom is not free, then the argument becomes simply the methods by which "freedom" is utilized.

    One "freedom" that is zealously protected by the state is the right to unlimited reproduction. You can have 99 children and you don't even have to educate them in the language of the country. You a "free" to not teach them the difference between right and wrong (although if you do your right to spank them is not a "freedom"). Should you neglect them, the state will provvide for them (at the taxpayers expense).

    So, in the absence of this mythological freedom, we should try to gain value. Determinedly protecting the breeding ability of obvious failures is a ludicrous application of the so-called "rights" and provides at least a small pathway for the betterment of the world.

    Now, if I were King, having a child would require a permit which would be partially based on income and resources. I think about $5000 - all of which would fund the child's future education/retirement/medical fund. Having a child without a permit would not only result in immediate sterilization of both partners but also a substantial fine in addition to the original permit fees. Now, this in itself is a long and arduous discussion so let it rest for now instead of wandering off topic.

    Since you are a criminal, I certainly don't feel any sense of obligation to assist you and protect your rights to providing future criminals. Both the male and female surgeries required and minor, and relatively painless. Since you are confined anyway, you have no risk of infections and the like.

    (thanks for the intelligent debate. If we could have more conversations on DP that don't become shouting matches and insults, we would all be the better for it. I appreciate the courteous manner in which you have disagreed with me and look forward to your persuasive, intellectual counter-responses)


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The state having the power to remove peoples bodily function is allowing the state to impede on the bodily functions of their citizens. To say that a decidedly coercive and frankly an immoral choice to offer someone that leads to loss of bodily function is fine because they might not commit further crimes or they will have no further children is simply saying it's fine to have the state bully its citizens in giving up their bodily functions. That does nothing to improve society.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter King View Post
    I am sorry, but it is the land of the free, right? I am all for promoting people to stop having untold numbers of kids, but blackmailing them with reduced sentences for sterilization, that is just immoral.

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