Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 82

Thread: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

  1. #61
    Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Last Seen
    11-30-13 @ 07:05 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    1,293

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post

    Listen, like it or not, repairing the damage that Bush did, both Jr and Sr and the damage of Reagan and even Clinton.. is not something that can happen overnight or maybe never. Point is, people on the right are blaming everything on Obama, when there is plenty of blame to go around and he certainly did not create the problems in the middle east, nor the policies that lead to the problems.
    Just what is the damage, exactly, that Bush both Jr and Sr, Reagan and Clinton that caused trouble in the middle east? Is there a reason why the countries in the middle east never cause any problems and if so, just how is it, exactly, that they manage that?

  2. #62
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Don't flatter yourself, you wouldn't know the truth if it was protruding from your own arse.
    Pot to kettle again. You always make it about me and the issue. Some would consider that a weakness in your argument.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #63
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Pot to kettle again. You always make it about me and the issue. Some would consider that a weakness in your argument.
    Classic projection, just go back and read, and see whom made what about whom....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  4. #64
    A Man Without A Country
    Mr. Invisible's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,960
    Blog Entries
    71

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    This is from your source,



    You had to go back nearly 70s years, to find a way to defend Obama? That's very telling.

    Ya know, there was a company of Muslims that served in the Confederate Army. Does that that make The Confederates supporters of Islamofacism, too?
    I am not defending Obama, you said that he backed the MB, I am just providing info that backing the MB isn't anything new, is all.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  5. #65
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Classic projection, just go back and read, and see whom made what about whom....
    I spoke to what you said. It's silliness. Not you.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Just what is the damage, exactly, that Bush both Jr and Sr, Reagan and Clinton that caused trouble in the middle east? Is there a reason why the countries in the middle east never cause any problems and if so, just how is it, exactly, that they manage that?
    None of this would have happened if Morsi had not been a Jew.

    Egyptians believe Morsi in cahoots with US, Israel - Israel News, Ynetnews

    George Bush was probably behind this. His father too. And their wives.

  7. #67
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Just what is the damage, exactly, that Bush both Jr and Sr, Reagan and Clinton that caused trouble in the middle east? Is there a reason why the countries in the middle east never cause any problems and if so, just how is it, exactly, that they manage that?
    Lets see... Reagan shelled civilians in Lebanon and meddled into a civil war and bombed Libya. Bush Sr invaded Iraq as did Jr and Clinton continued the same failed policies of the GOP President by backing Israel unconditionally... something Obama of course has continued as well.

    And I never said that countries in the middle east never caused any problems, but most of those problems started internally or in between themselves and only went world wide when the selfrightous western countries of the US, UK and France started to meddle in their business.

    Point is, that to every action there is a reaction and much of the stuff coming out of the middle east, is due to an action by a select number of countries going all the way back before WW1. So we should not be shocked when people in the region actually are skeptical or even hate us.... people have very long memories in that part of the world... very very long.
    PeteEU

  8. #68
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,264

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Lets see... Reagan shelled civilians in Lebanon and meddled into a civil war and bombed Libya. Bush Sr invaded Iraq as did Jr and Clinton continued the same failed policies of the GOP President by backing Israel unconditionally... something Obama of course has continued as well.

    And I never said that countries in the middle east never caused any problems, but most of those problems started internally or in between themselves and only went world wide when the selfrightous western countries of the US, UK and France started to meddle in their business.

    Point is, that to every action there is a reaction and much of the stuff coming out of the middle east, is due to an action by a select number of countries going all the way back before WW1. So we should not be shocked when people in the region actually are skeptical or even hate us.... people have very long memories in that part of the world... very very long.
    Maybe a little too long for the sane to comprehend. What are we supposed to do now? We could say that blowing up innocents, mutilating and abusing women, and declaring war on the rest of the world is just those boys being boys, doing what they do. After all, it's really our fault they're doing those things. Or, we could try to stop some of that ****. The idea that we are not universally loved, that we may be reviled in some quarters, is nothing new and nothing to get our panties in a twist over.

  9. #69
    Sage
    polgara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,348

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Maybe a little too long for the sane to comprehend. What are we supposed to do now? We could say that blowing up innocents, mutilating and abusing women, and declaring war on the rest of the world is just those boys being boys, doing what they do. After all, it's really our fault they're doing those things. Or, we could try to stop some of that ****. The idea that we are not universally loved, that we may be reviled in some quarters, is nothing new and nothing to get our panties in a twist over.
    Why is it that any time we read about trouble in the ME, the very next headlines will be shouting "anti-Americanism flares....". You know, I am getting very weary of my country being a scapegoat for everything that goes wrong everywhere! The people in Egypt apparently didn't want Morsi changing the game plan after he was elected ...so why is it our fault that they voted for him? :

    Good morning, humbolt.

  10. #70
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Anti-Americanism flares in Egypt as protests rage over Morsi's ouster

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Maybe a little too long for the sane to comprehend. What are we supposed to do now?
    Good question actually and not an easy one to answer. You have one major problem and that is your dependence on oil. It means you need the oil from the middle east, either to stabilize the price of oil, or actually to consume. This has lead to almost 100 years of petro companies (the 7 sisters.. google it) basically defining American foreign policy in the region. Get off oil, and you can say "**** you" to the middle east and leave.

    But do you really see yourself getting off oil any time soon with the political right and oil companies fighting against alternative energy sources all in the while say "Drill drill drill baby"?

    And then there is the Israel issue.. which is easily solve-able as well. Remove the unconditional support and watch Israel behave and suddenly want real peace for security.

    We could say that blowing up innocents, mutilating and abusing women,and declaring war on the rest of the world is just those boys being boys, doing what they do.
    To be frank.. as long as they are doing it to themselves and not Americans or anyone outside the region.. then yea who cares. People have been abusing other people and innocents since the dawn of time. Even today it is happening in the US on a daily basis, but no one is doing much to deal with it. Where are the mass arrests of company owners using illegal aliens and abusing these aliens? Or the arrests of religious groups that use children in the sex games?

    As for declaring war on the rest of the world....no one has that. If any war has been declared it has been from the US and its allies against so called terror, which in many cases (but not all) was the direct result in abuses by the very same US and its allies, either in the present or the past. It does not justify the terror in any way, but does explain why some of it has happened, which is one of the first steps in trying to prevent similar acts in the future. When people are abused and downtrodden, then in many cases they will react violently to free themselves from the oppressors.. or should they not do that according to you?

    After all, it's really our fault they're doing those things.
    Who said it was? It is their own fault and traditions and backward ways and religion.

    All "you" have done as a nation is become a lighting rod for every crackpot who wants power and uses the above mention crap to take power and keep power. It is no difference than Hitler using the Jews and Socialists as blame for all the problems of Germany after WW1. It is no difference than Amin of Uganda blaming the Asian population for problems in Uganda and deporting them all.. crashing the economy as a result btw.

    Lets give an example. The Beirut barracks bombings.

    The US and others entered Lebanon to stop a civil war. That alone was stupid, but that is another discussion. The reaction of this action and actions on the ground saw the US barracks being attacked and a lot of people killed. As a reaction to this, the US and France bombed many areas of Lebanon and the USS New Jersey lobbed 300 shells into the Bekaa Valley.

    Now people in the Bekaa Valley, where many radicals have come from became radicalized because of the shelling by the USS New Jersey. They could care less that it was a reaction to the car bombing of the US barracks and to this day, many in Lebanon, especially in the areas hit by the US and French forces, see these attacks as a reason to hate the US and France.

    The goal of the terrorists was to get the US and its allies out of Lebanon so they could continue the war, and that as accomplished. But the attack also brought a lot of new recruits to the side of the terrorists.. not because of the attacks, but the reaction to the attacks by the US and France... where they targeted civilian areas pretty indiscriminately.

    Or, we could try to stop some of that ****.
    You cant, that is the problem! You dont have the financial means nor the military means. You would have to do what you did to Nazi Germany to even remotely get close to fixing the problem, and even then the odds are against you simply because of geographics and logistics. And at least the Germans were a highly educated peoples... these people are not and that is a massive problem.

    Take Bosnia.. in no way could you prevent nor stop that war and mass murder. Sure you could have sent troops in, that would have been slaughtered wholesale, something that the average American would never stomach. Or Syria.. sure send troops in.. but it wont solve the problem, and will only cause many more problems. Who do you defend or attack? Want to put islamist in power? Keep Assad in power? Protect his tribes from the rest of the country? And how about the Kurds who will revolt as well.. talk about a cluster**** of epic proportions.

    And finally Iraq. Sure you sent troops in, got rid of Saddam based on lies. But what has that gotten you? A country split in 3, and dominated by Tehran and even more corrupt and violent than under Saddam. As a bonus Iran has become far more powerful and now has a direct link to its allies in Syria and Hamas/Hezbollah, something that US governments time and time tried to prevent. You also managed to train thousands and thousands of arabs in how to attack the US and refined terror on a grand scale. Did it make Iraqis love the US? Nope, quite the opposite. The mass murder of Iraqis kinda changes the hearts and minds of people ..

    You cant police the world.. the Spanish tried it and failed costing them an empire in the process, and then the British who also ultimately failed and cost them their empire. You are now in the same situation and it is time to cut your losses or end up as irrelevant as the UK and Spain or even going back further.. the Turks (Ottoman Empire) and Italians (Romans and later Christian empires).

    Forming alliances based on security and trade is the way forward.... not war and blackmail.

    The idea that we are not universally loved, that we may be reviled in some quarters, is nothing new and nothing to get our panties in a twist over.
    Has nothing about being universally loved. Thanks to the information age, people have started to understand how the US has operated the last 60-100+ years. Out of total self interest, while claiming some sort of higher moral ground, when in fact at home they were no better than the countries and people they were looking down on and attacking.

    You also have to remember, the top dog politically world wide, has always been hated by those nations and peoples that it has "kept down or abused" either directly or indirectly.. hell even true or falsely. You do realize that the British Empire got the same treatment as the US is getting now... from among others.. the US itself! You do know that the US had plans to invade the British Empire right? That they saw the British as their main foe on the world stage for almost 100 years before they became allies in WW2.

    The Anti-Americanism in Egypt is not unusual, since they are being shot by American bullets and American guns and American tear gas.

    But on top of that, they have been fed a diet of anti-Americanism by the Soviets first (Soviets supported Egypt during the cold war), and later on religious nutjobs based on the US support for Israel. It wont go away any time soon but it can be levitated over time by good deeds and political actions that create a future for the people in the region and yes fixing the freaking Israeli-Palestinian problem.

    But saying that... anti-Americanism benefits the US as well, especially certain industries... never forget that. High oil prices means big profits for oil companies. Conflict means more weapons and bloated military budgets.. .. never forget that.
    PeteEU

Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 56789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •