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Thread: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Donc View Post
    I would say that there is not a yes or no answer to your question.
    Agreed! False dichotomy.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    There isn't such a graph. But realize we're talking about two different things here.

    Businesses are independent profit maximizers. Their job is to maximize their profits and gobble up as much of the available market share as possible. I'm not advocating improper behaviour, but maximizing profit is their duty to their families and employees. Businesses shouldn't ever feel the need to expand when it's not in their self interest to do so. That's micro-economics.

    But we're not talking about microeconomics. We're not talking about open systems where it's possible to absorb wealth and material from the outside. We're talking about Macro-economics where there is no outside.

    The bottom line is that there amount of stuff made in the world equals the amount of stuff consumed. The economy is essentially the trading of all of these goods and services. The economy grows as people produce and therefore consume more. However, if all of the wealth is concentrated in too few hands, then the uber rich can't possibly spend what they have and the people at the bottom don't have enough wealth to make up the difference. The net result is higher unemployment.

    I know you have all of these political hot button issues, but they kind of don't matter, at least not when we're talking about fundamental problems in the economy.

    Well, you may think them hot button issues, but they are relevant on both the micro, and the macro. Personally, I think the massing of wealth gained through the clicking of a mouse, or the betting on a stock price manipulated to shimmer at the right moment in time is a joke. However, it would be hypocritical of me to call for changes to limit the practice. I fully reject any action that identifies someone, or something, as being too big to fail. That is outrageous and prostitutes the process.

    In the whole, one can broaden the scope of the global economy to fit any macro review. I don't know how helpful that is. I suppose in some futurist fantasy there could be a point that suggests only a few have all, and the rest live only to serve them, but reality certainly crashes that scenario to the ground.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Well, you may think them hot button issues, but they are relevant on both the micro, and the macro. Personally, I think the massing of wealth gained through the clicking of a mouse, or the betting on a stock price manipulated to shimmer at the right moment in time is a joke. However, it would be hypocritical of me to call for changes to limit the practice. I fully reject any action that identifies someone, or something, as being too big to fail. That is outrageous and prostitutes the process.

    In the whole, one can broaden the scope of the global economy to fit any macro review. I don't know how helpful that is. I suppose in some futurist fantasy there could be a point that suggests only a few have all, and the rest live only to serve them, but reality certainly crashes that scenario to the ground.
    Well then have at it! How are they relevant on the macro level? For example Obama-Care.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You create wealth by creating services that people want, i.e. Facebook. You have such a narrow minded view of the economy and what leadership is. Wonder if you would have the same outlook if these were a Republican numbers vs. a Democrat? Capitalism made this country great, too bad liberals and Obama are trying to destroy it? You think demonizing individual wealth creation helps capitalism? You think that things like Obamacare, more regulations, and higher taxes promote capitalism? You think having people dependent on the govt. promotes capitalism?

    I trash the guy in the WH because he lacks the leadership and executive experience to be there. Sometimes it takes a leader to cheerlead and Obama would rather blame someone else vs cheerleading the workers in this economy
    Facebook? Can't most of the functions performed by their employees be performed by people in other countries? What good is a service job if the job can be exported just like manufacturing jobs? jThe fact is that a good deal of middle class jobs have been exported to China and a multitude of other countries. One service job is nurses which cannot be exported, that fact maybe why so many men have entered into the field.


    Number of male U.S. nurses triple since 1970 - CBS News

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Well then have at it! How are they relevant on the macro level? For example Obama-Care.
    Hmmm.

    Frankly, I'm more focused on the micro, as you put it. It would seem you view the macro as being the economy on a global scale.

    I suppose an argument could be made that the economic drag on business caused by uncertainty over the impact of Obamacare can have global implications. For example, I purchase sub-assemblies for products I manufacture through a number of souces in China, and Thailand. I plan to start making those here, but I am holding off that investment until I have a better feel for where the X crosses the Y. Obamacare, and other factors are part of those calculations. Our analysis indicates we will need 8 people, plus some additional engineering time, to bring the manufacturing of those components under my roof.

    What kind of impact would 8 well paid workers have on the global economy? Well, that's all realtive. Multiply that times thousands of companies.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Facebook? Can't most of the functions performed by their employees be performed by people in other countries? What good is a service job if the job can be exported just like manufacturing jobs? jThe fact is that a good deal of middle class jobs have been exported to China and a multitude of other countries. One service job is nurses which cannot be exported, that fact maybe why so many men have entered into the field.


    Number of male U.S. nurses triple since 1970 - CBS News
    Sorry but it seems that you want a simple yet secure job for life and that is never going to happen in the real world. People change, demands change, buying habits change and those that adapt to change will benefit the most from changing with that change. Many of the industries are gone replaced by new industries created from technological or demand changes. Manufacturing jobs have been lost in this country only to be replaced by high tech jobs that replaced them. The only thing constant in this world is change. Too bad liberals don't understand that

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Sorry but it seems that you want a simple yet secure job for life and that is never going to happen in the real world. People change, demands change, buying habits change and those that adapt to change will benefit the most from changing with that change. Many of the industries are gone replaced by new industries created from technological or demand changes. Manufacturing jobs have been lost in this country only to be replaced by high tech jobs that replaced them. The only thing constant in this world is change. Too bad liberals don't understand that

    I enjoy your posts.

    One thing that seems to escape so many, is the impact of regulatory incrementalism. People have such short memories. Take the automobile industry.

    A modern car is a technological wonder. It staggers me to think of the technology cramed into a car to meet current EPA and other regulations. Add in the fact the government demands these cars work properly for 100,000 miles, come hell or high water. Then consider the fact the resulting vehicle must be priced at a point the market will respond to, and it's no wonder automation and actual human man hours have been reduced.

    Add in ROI demands from stockholders, hedge funds, and the big public pension funds, and it's no wonder production has been shipped off shore in order to maintain profit margins and growth.

    From my point of view, one of the greatest threats to business in the US is the reality of regulatory incrementalism. It's a cancer that has had a dramatic negative impact on business throughout the country.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You seem to be an expert on what everyone else does and what businesses do with higher taxes and regulations. That leads me to believe you never had a dime of your own money invested in anything nor did you ever have to meet a payroll with revenue generated from the sale of any products. I do agree with you though as most of it is manageable but the problem is that management normally means reduction in operating expenses with the easiest one to reduce and the most expensive being payroll. We are seeing businesses making record profits today and achieving high stock values due mostly to operating expenses being low because payrolls are low. Companies are doing more with less and the reverberates throughout the economy. The ones being hurt the most are small businesses which liberals want to ignore. Further what you fail to understand is how the market works. People even people like you are always looking for a good deal. Competition keeps prices low and when you raise operating expenses and cannot pass those increased costs on to the consumer you cannot print money thus you go out of business.

    The economic results of Obama are geared to the uneducated non business individual who somehow seems to believe that money grows on trees. For the govt. it basically does as they cut down trees and print cash out of the paper. Private business cannot do that. Obama has been the most anti business, anti private enterprise President this country has seen since Carter. He is making Carter look good though. Unfortunately in your world results don't seem to matter which leads me to believe as I stated you invested and managed nothing.
    I have history to inform me on what has happened, so we can predict based on history what will happen. it's not against the rules to read up on it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I have history to inform me on what has happened, so we can predict based on history what will happen. it's not against the rules to read up on it.

    I have seen no evidence that you have any concept of history or actual business experience. Anyone that doesn't believe regulations, higher taxes, Obamacare don't affect business costs negatively are very nave and have no knowledge of history or a business financial statement.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have seen no evidence that you have any concept of history or actual business experience. Anyone that doesn't believe regulations, higher taxes, Obamacare don't affect business costs negatively are very nave and have no knowledge of history or a business financial statement.
    Stay within the claim. No one said no effect. Said not enough to stop business if people are buying. This economy has flourish with both low and high taxes, more regulations and less regulations. This is historical fact.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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