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Thread: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

  1. #1761
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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Hey, thanks for using facts. Now if we could just get you to use real (verifiable) facts.

    Where did you get your numbers as they do not jive with table 1.1 of the US Budget (Historical Tables | The White House or see below)? I would love to indulge you in your question, but not your fantasies. Let's see a link and settle on the real numbers so that we can actually have a discussion.

    Note per the table below, 2001 had an on-budget deficit of $32B; but the total budget showed a surplus of $128B. In 1999, we had a surplus on-budget and in total. The 2001 on-budget deficit was 100% attributable to a revenue shortfall of a greater amount (see tax collection column), largely caused by the tech bubble crash rather than specific policies of the President.

    Regardless, the discussion of whether we had a small deficit or small surplus is moot. Either way our budget had negligible surplus or modest, manageable deficits. In essence, they were the same thing: the budget was balanced when the tenant at 1600 Pennsylvania changed. In fact, the prevailing wisdom and political discussion at the time was about how to spend the forecast surpluses.

    Happy to discuss you issue, but please either accept the real numbers or produce some support for yours. I refuse to debate your impressions, which without verifiable numbers is all you have brought to the table.

    Notwithstanding anything you might come up with to refute the starting point as "balanced budget", the ending point (the day the George turned the keys to 1600 Pennsylvania to Barack) was huge deficits. Hard to blame anyone but George for that mess.

    Looking forward to your response, champ.

    Attachment 67150943
    Facts? You think political spin from the Whitehouse is "facts"? Seriously? You have to be joking, right?

    Alright, back to the main topic. There was no Clinton "surplus". Just spin.

    The deficit:
    1 Oct 1999-5,652,679,330,611
    29 Sep 1999 5,674,178,209,886
    total-21,498,879,275

    1 Oct 2000-5,674,178,209,886
    28 Sep 2001-5,807,463,412,200
    total-133,285,202,314

    Those facts came from: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/np/debt/current

    So what to make of them? Simple. The capital gains tax cut and the dot com boom created good business conditions. Then, dot com boom played out and was way past its peak and it showed. Clinton didn't have a clue and was leaving Bush a mess but so what? He got plenty of sex, wasn't convicted of impeachment and his punishment for his felony conviction wasn't going to stop him from making millions. The numbers don't lie and both budgets 1999 and 2000 belong to Clinton. Business conditions were not real good the day Bush took office, in fact a major downward trend was what Bush was faced with along with Clintons $133,285,202,314 deficit his first year.

    Lets also not pretend the federal debt started with Bush. Clinton added to it every year (once again use the treasury website for facts instead of whitehouse spin). You and I can both blame Bush for added to the federal debt but no president in American history has added to the debt like Obama has. And with Obama, because of unaffordable Obamacare, our nation is doomed.

    real numbers. real facts. real truth. No whitehouse spin. have a good day chump.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Facts? You think political spin from the Whitehouse is "facts"? Seriously? You have to be joking, right?

    Alright, back to the main topic. There was no Clinton "surplus". Just spin.

    The deficit:
    1 Oct 1999-5,652,679,330,611
    29 Sep 1999 5,674,178,209,886
    total-21,498,879,275

    1 Oct 2000-5,674,178,209,886
    28 Sep 2001-5,807,463,412,200
    total-133,285,202,314

    Those facts came from: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/np/debt/current

    So what to make of them? Simple. The capital gains tax cut and the dot com boom created good business conditions. Then, dot com boom played out and was way past its peak and it showed. Clinton didn't have a clue and was leaving Bush a mess but so what? He got plenty of sex, wasn't convicted of impeachment and his punishment for his felony conviction wasn't going to stop him from making millions. The numbers don't lie and both budgets 1999 and 2000 belong to Clinton. Business conditions were not real good the day Bush took office, in fact a major downward trend was what Bush was faced with along with Clintons $133,285,202,314 deficit his first year.

    Lets also not pretend the federal debt started with Bush. Clinton added to it every year (once again use the treasury website for facts instead of whitehouse spin). You and I can both blame Bush for added to the federal debt but no president in American history has added to the debt like Obama has. And with Obama, because of unaffordable Obamacare, our nation is doomed.

    real numbers. real facts. real truth. No whitehouse spin. have a good day chump.
    what fate is our nation doomed to suffer because of our debt?

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    A bias bit of research.

    From the actual paper:
    We find that New Deal cartelization policies are an important factor in accounting for the post-1933 Depression
    Hmmmm.... Post-1933 means after the majority of job, wealth, and monetary destruction bottomed out. There are some valid points in claiming various labor contracts which were counterproductive, but the largest most intervention-ist of New Deal policies were Glass Steagall orientated, namely the FDIC. The FDIC stabilized the banking sector, and there has never been a run on U.S. FDIC banks since its implementation.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Facts? You think political spin from the Whitehouse is "facts"? Seriously? You have to be joking, right?

    Alright, back to the main topic. There was no Clinton "surplus". Just spin.
    We have gone over this a thousand times, there was a surplus and BY FEDERAL LAW, it was required to be paid back into the SSTF which had been borrowed against to fund previous deficits, so you were not going to see a reduction in total debt. There was a surplus from FY1998 to FY2001.

    Lets also not pretend the federal debt started with Bush. Clinton added to it every year (once again use the treasury website for facts instead of whitehouse spin). You and I can both blame Bush for added to the federal debt but no president in American history has added to the debt like Obama has. And with Obama, because of unaffordable Obamacare, our nation is doomed.

    real numbers. real facts. real truth. No whitehouse spin. have a good day chump.
    The increases in the budgets since 2009 have been among the smallest since Eisenhower, the issue has been the major cost increases during the Bush years (unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare D, tax cuts) and of course the huge decline in revenue from the recession.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    We have gone over this a thousand times, there was a surplus and BY FEDERAL LAW, it was required to be paid back into the SSTF which had been borrowed against to fund previous deficits, so you were not going to see a reduction in total debt. There was a surplus from FY1998 to FY2001.
    Another thing is that when the Treasury issues securities that adds to the debt.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    A bias bit of research.

    From the actual paper:

    Hmmmm.... Post-1933 means after the majority of job, wealth, and monetary destruction bottomed out. There are some valid points in claiming various labor contracts which were counterproductive, but the largest most intervention-ist of New Deal policies were Glass Steagall orientated, namely the FDIC. The FDIC stabilized the banking sector, and there has never been a run on U.S. FDIC banks since its implementation.
    One of your classic nonsensical responses

    Obama has been giving the same speech for 5 years. You've been shilling up this forum for years with the same gibberish. I remember you were doing high fives and cartwheels when there was 3% GDP growth one quarter. Oh wait, that got revised down "unexpectedly". Total cumulative GDP Growth under Obama is PATHETIC. This is happening while the Fed creates 85B out of nothing a month to enrich their Wall Street bankster pals with our savings and Obama robs future generations blind with ill conceived stimulus plans that crash and burn.

    From the article you're trying to cherry pick and speculate from

    Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies

    Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60 percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they believe the slump actually ended: 1943
    It's not worth my time even engaging you. We're nearly 17T in debt and it's growing by the second. Time and again your talking points have proven to be lies and obfuscation. For any future responses, feel free to reference this post and the previous one.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    From the article you're trying to cherry pick and speculate from
    I read the actual paper years ago.

    Perhaps you can explain to us the validity of adopting their cartel model which assumes zero market entry and constant returns to capital (page 26 of the paper).

    It's not worth my time even engaging you.
    You can't engage me because you have a limited (at best) understanding of political economy and global finance. Referencing a study you lack the ability to comprehend, much less defend, doesn't score you any points.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    We have gone over this a thousand times, there was a surplus and BY FEDERAL LAW, it was required to be paid back into the SSTF which had been borrowed against to fund previous deficits, so you were not going to see a reduction in total debt. There was a surplus from FY1998 to FY2001.

    The increases in the budgets since 2009 have been among the smallest since Eisenhower, the issue has been the major cost increases during the Bush years (unfunded wars, unfunded Medicare D, tax cuts) and of course the huge decline in revenue from the recession.
    Paid back into the SSTF? Who wrote the check? Who transferred the funds? That's right, nobody. Why? Because government debt is government debt. When congress borrows money from SS (I know, it's stupid) it owes money to itself. If they paid money back, a no political spin balance sheet would show a reduction in debt somewhere. There was no surplus. They spent the money or gave it away however you want to look at it. And that's assuming that it was accounted for correctly to begin with as who knows how much "off the books" ate up of the phony surplus to begin with. Using a document from the Whitehouse for fiscal purposes is beyond silly when other government agencies clearly show the data from the Whitehouse is in deliberate error.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ItAin'tFree View Post
    Paid back into the SSTF? Who wrote the check? Who transferred the funds? That's right, nobody.
    The US Treasury


    PS...no response?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1062104268
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 07-25-13 at 04:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    what fate is our nation doomed to suffer because of our debt?
    What is the value of your dollar going to be when that debt has to be funded by printing or borrowing money?

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