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Thread: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    . Of course you do, we all know that Bush gave Obama the authority to put Bush spending on steroids and that 6.2 trillion in 4 plus years is much less than 4.9 trillion in 8 years.

    So those bills in Reid's desk are to repeal Obamacare? I cannot imagine how increasing business costs by forcing small businesses to provide healthcare will affect hiring. You really have that figured out well.
    Who knows how you figure Obama is putting Bush's spending on steroids? It was already on steroids when Obama passed his first budget.

    2009: 3.52
    2010: 3.46
    2011: 3.60
    2012: 3.54

    Government Spending Chart: United States 2001-2018 - Federal State Local Data

    Spending for FY2012 was not much more than it was for FY2009, which was operating under Bush's budget for the first half of the fiscal year.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And there is no demand because of low consumer confidence and poor leadership by the WH to create confidence.
    So, government is the answer?

    Point is the problem is neither taxes nor regulations. Those things can be navigated.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So, government is the answer?

    Point is the problem is neither taxes nor regulations. Those things can be navigated.
    No, the govt. is the obstacle not the answer, get out of the way and let the free enterprise work. Stop creating dependence and rewarding bad behavior. You continue to ignore basic human behavior including your own. Reagan understood leadership, liberals today have no idea

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I can tell you from my own personal experience that what you suggest about demand is not alltogether true. Demand can be created, and is created all the time.

    I've cited examples of products that were not in demand, manufactured by companies that barely existed, where supply generated demand. This is well known, and, for example, forms the basis for funding Research and Development. Obviously, a final decision is based on whether the market could support the product. No reason to open a Rolls Royce dealership in downtown Detroit, for example, or build a skateboard park in a retirement village.

    As to the Obamacare example, I think you may not have thought that through. Obamacare has exacerbated the doctor shortage, no alleviated it. With dramatic restrictions on Doctor compensation, and still questionable provisions required such things as "the doctor fix" just to fill in holes, Doctors are going to be far shorter supply than ever. Obamacare is a perfect example of the unintended consequences of goverment intervention and regulation.
    If we have a lot of expendable money, yes you can get is to buy all kinds of shiny things. In that sense, demand can be created. And we covered low salaries for a long time by the "charge it" mantra. Buy, when we see demand as plentiful customers with disposable income, that can be created by a good sales pitch. The demand is from those making enough to buy. One of the downsides to low wages is the decrease of buyers.

    As for healthcare reform, you have factual mistake concerning the reform. There are encouragements within the act to increase the number of doctors and to explore cheaper and more cost effective deliveries (including by providers other than doctors). The AMA has a huge lobbying force, and that means a huge say in government. But, the point is the act has encouragements.

    As for restrictions of compensations, doctors are not going broke. When the skying is falling scare subsides, they will settle in, adjust, and still be well compensated. That would be the case even if we went with UHC.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, the govt. is the obstacle not the answer, get out of the way and let the free enterprise work. Stop creating dependence and rewarding bad behavior. You continue to ignore basic human behavior including your own. Reagan understood leadership, liberals today have no idea
    If you blame the government, especially in terms f leadership, than you're saying only government can fix it.

    The truth is, you're argument is really little more than partisan hackers. There is no substance in your argument.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If you blame the government, especially in terms f leadership, than you're saying only government can fix it.

    The truth is, you're argument is really little more than partisan hackers. There is no substance in your argument.
    Govt. has a role in fixing the problem they helped create. You seem to be having a problem with anyone that disagrees with your point of view totally ignoring human behavior and that impact on economic activity. Who created the problem of dependence today, the individual or the govt? All that spending in the name of compassion that never really generated compassionate spending but rather created dependence.

    I have seen no substance at all from you because you cannot argue the reality that more spendable income due to tax cuts stimulates economic activity, growth, and job creation.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    If we have a lot of expendable money, yes you can get is to buy all kinds of shiny things. In that sense, demand can be created. And we covered low salaries for a long time by the "charge it" mantra. Buy, when we see demand as plentiful customers with disposable income, that can be created by a good sales pitch. The demand is from those making enough to buy. One of the downsides to low wages is the decrease of buyers.

    As for healthcare reform, you have factual mistake concerning the reform. There are encouragements within the act to increase the number of doctors and to explore cheaper and more cost effective deliveries (including by providers other than doctors). The AMA has a huge lobbying force, and that means a huge say in government. But, the point is the act has encouragements.

    As for restrictions of compensations, doctors are not going broke. When the skying is falling scare subsides, they will settle in, adjust, and still be well compensated. That would be the case even if we went with UHC.
    I'm sorry, but a swish of your hand through the air doesn't change the realities of healthcare and it's impact of the availability of qualified people to provide it. You're either grossly misinformed on the issue, or unwilling to take the time to accurately address the issue.

    As to demand, etc., my observations are based on my experiences. I can only go by that.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I'm sorry, but a swish of your hand through the air doesn't change the realities of healthcare and it's impact of the availability of qualified people to provide it. You're either grossly misinformed on the issue, or unwilling to take the time to accurately address the issue.

    As to demand, etc., my observations are based on my experiences. I can only go by that.
    No, I'm quite well informed on it.

    1. The law does have the encouragements I mentioned.

    2. The compensation is quite high. Doctors will not be going broke. We can link numbers on tis if you want. My brother in law says his practice will likely see a decrease from 300k to 295k, give or take. He'd like it go he other way, but calling that a hardship is a bit of an exaggeration.

    But we can't have it all ways. To decrease the expense, means we have to pay less. Now to do that and increase access is difficult. Making everyone happy impossible. So, we need to focus on the problem and at accordingly. UHC addresses this, doesn't break doctors, removes healthcare from business, and lowers cost with increased access.

    And your experience shows something different that what I said, I would love to see anY support for it all. People without disposable income spenng money seems very unlikely and sure to be a problem if you ask me.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Govt. has a role in fixing the problem they helped create. You seem to be having a problem with anyone that disagrees with your point of view totally ignoring human behavior and that impact on economic activity. Who created the problem of dependence today, the individual or the govt? All that spending in the name of compassion that never really generated compassionate spending but rather created dependence.

    I have seen no substance at all from you because you cannot argue the reality that more spendable income due to tax cuts stimulates economic activity, growth, and job creation.
    You can't cut taxes enough. It helps the wealthy more, but their spending isn't decreased or increased based on taxes (remember I've give you studies on that many times). And working class and poorer families just don't get enough from cuts o stimulate.

    If you more toward UHC, removed it from employment, if with increased taxes, you'd do more to put money in their hands than cutting taxes.

    I've. Presented evidence and not merely repeated the talking points and rants as you do. To rebut, you need to do the same.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I'm quite well informed on it.

    1. The law does have the encouragements I mentioned.

    2. The compensation is quite high. Doctors will not be going broke. We can link numbers on tis if you want. My brother in law says his practice will likely see a decrease from 300k to 295k, give or take. He'd like it go he other way, but calling that a hardship is a bit of an exaggeration.

    But we can't have it all ways. To decrease the expense, means we have to pay less. Now to do that and increase access is difficult. Making everyone happy impossible. So, we need to focus on the problem and at accordingly. UHC addresses this, doesn't break doctors, removes healthcare from business, and lowers cost with increased access.

    And your experience shows something different that what I said, I would love to see anY support for it all. People without disposable income spenng money seems very unlikely and sure to be a problem if you ask me.
    Boo, what happens if you are wrong? Are there any consequences in your world for making a bad mistake that affects 1/7 of the U.S. Economy? Have you bothered to dig into the MA results? Costs are up and the number of doctors are down. There certainly is total access but access to whom?
    Last edited by Conservative; 07-15-13 at 03:23 PM.

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