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Thread: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    by stimulating the private sector and consumer spending. The only ones benefiting from the Obama recovery are the banks. The Average American isn't being reported in your textbooks.
    So there we have it folks, the admission from Conservative that the same spending scheme brought by Reagan is not being applied under Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Your originally claimed...that "Furthermore, the government creates a class of "not seeking work" containing over 80 million people, at least 40 million of which are able to work, old enough, and may actually be seeking work but have not been hired yet." I replied that if they were seeking work they'd be classified as Unemployed and then you responded that "Again, depends on your viewpoint. Having worked with both employers and the unemployed I am a little less skeptical about real causes of their "disgust" and "marginality."" But since all the info on job search and availability comes from the respondents, it certainly seems like you're questioning the validity of the classifications. You seem to be implying that they really are looking, yet are classified as not.
    Meh...are you intentionally being misleading? The first reply of mine you quoted there was in response to YOUR post #994, which replied to MY post #990, which was in regards to YOUR post #963 discussing “marginal” and “disgusted” among those classified as “not seeking work.” It was not in relationship to the “40 million able bodied listed as not seekers” classified through government survey questionnaires. Have difficulty following a discussion?

    I further explained that my position was also based on 3 years first-hand experience dealing with thousands of employers and unemployed workers, not just survey responses. Empirical evidence is more convincing to me than government propaganda.

    Most of the rest of your reply after this point is argument regarding why you think the “estimates” limiting unemployment to what the government claims it is are valid. I don’t accept this so I am simply not going to respond. I’ve already stated several times why, no need to repeat myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    POTENTIAL. Why do you want to measure potential instead of actual? The main number is, as it should be, the actual number seeking work, with the Potential listed seperately.
    Why? Because several times in my own life I have been a “potential” employee when I periodically sought work, even while in school, for one reason or another. I am fairly certain there are many people who do that, i.e. students applying at one or two places seeking some independent income, wives who don’t “need” one but sometimes seek one only to change their minds, even retirees who simply want something to do. Their efforts may be half-hearted, or only aggressive a few days at any one time, but while they are they also become “competition” for more serious job seekers.

    Also, this group of “non-seekers” provides an answer for the larger number of job applicant’s during economic downturns, when the major breadwinner is laid off, fired, or w/e. More people seeking than merely those who had lost jobs or were previously seeking can account for.

    Ignoring this potential until it is somehow statistically traceable is foolish, especially when talking about who is seeking employment, or causes of seeker marginalization or disgust.

    Sorry I hate word problems so I avoided that involved scenario you proposed. Besides, you provided your own answers anyway. I just don’t buy them.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    ....So I would say you could have given away a total of 1,085. But you would include some of the people who said they didn't want one.....why? How could they, or the people who didn't try to get one, have gotten one? (again, only talking about having more, not about doing anything different.
    Simply because I would want to have an extra supply on hand to provide for them if they change their minds! Many businesses do, it’s called either “overstock” or "reserve stock." Similarly, I want employers to realize the potential harm caused by further drain as they ship jobs out overseas, ignoring people who may be dependent on current workers and might flood the market if those they depend upon can no longer support them. This includes welfare recipients, pushed of the rolls and into the job market as the old tax base crumbles.

    Again, I don’t buy into government unemployment figures, they are playing a game with the numbers so that even when things look bad, they don’t seem bad because…” Oh look, so many other people are doing okay it can’t be all THAT bad, right???”
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 07-11-13 at 06:14 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Of course it has been done, but objectively? Not so much. It's indisputable that statistics and analysis are subject to bias and selective interpretation. To claim otherwise is to be foolish.

    As I wrote before, it's well known that a tremendous amount of effort has gone into the theory that President Reagan signaled the beginning of the end of prosperity in the United States. There is a financial and ideological imperitive behind proving such a connection exits.

    This fact alone casts most of the analysis by those purporting to be ojective highly into doubt. I do understand such results are met with great satisfaction by some, because they appear to support the narrative, but that doesn't change the bottom line.
    As there are multiple sources, which include both business people and republicans, we can assume fairly solid objectivity. If we only had liberals or democrats, you might have a point. But that's not what has been posted. Further more, there has been no contrary studies posted here. I suspect there is some difficulty in finding them. You can find opinions, as many have been posted, by the usual suspects as well. But little that even attempts to objectively study.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    No, i mean what is the typical recovery rate for an economy that goes through a financial crisis?


    Carmen M. Reinhart & Kenneth S. Rogoff's This Time Is Different: Eight Centuries of Financial Folly show's that downturns following financial crises are more severe and longer lasting.

    Comparing it to other recessions is completely disingenuous.
    Reagan found the solution, what has Obama tried? Although some would say it wasn't a financial crisis like this one, one would be blind however to say that it didn't hurt the American people harder than this recession thus was a financial disaster for many back then. Don't underestimate the value of good positive leadership. The blueprint was there but the Obama arrogance is on full display as are the results that supporters still ignore.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ToastyOats View Post
    All you do is repeat the same talking points, the GDP claim already debunked.
    Have you told your story to the Bureau of Economic Analysis as I posted the data directly from their site. GDP growth in 1981-89 dollars is ever bit as relevant as GDP growth today in today's dollars.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I did face it, I have no idea ho you think someone working AND going to college without grants or loans did not face it. You just keep on ignoring the massive INCREASES in spending by Reagan to get those "results".
    Yeah, guess actual results from spending is a foreign concept to you. Imagine this country today with 17 million jobs being created and GDP going up the 4 plus % Reagan averaged?

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So there we have it folks, the admission from Conservative that the same spending scheme brought by Reagan is not being applied under Obama.
    And there we have the typical liberal diversion from reality. Obama has put Reagan spending on steroids and generated the results we see today. Where are the 17 million jobs Reagan created? Where is the 4+% average GDP growth? Where is the consumer confidence level that Reagan generated? Where is the labor participation rate that Reagan had? Where are the low number of discouraged workers that Reagan had? You see, get all that information out of your textbook and ignore what really drives the consumer economy, individuals who believe in the Presidential economic policies.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    As there are multiple sources, which include both business people and republicans, we can assume fairly solid objectivity. If we only had liberals or democrats, you might have a point. But that's not what has been posted. Further more, there has been no contrary studies posted here. I suspect there is some difficulty in finding them. You can find opinions, as many have been posted, by the usual suspects as well. But little that even attempts to objectively study.
    You are welcome to assume, but that is only your opinion.

    Are you suggesting there hasn't been a concerted effort to identify the Reagan Administration as the beginning of the end of prosperity in the United States?

    There are classes offered in many of the major liberal college campuses across the country that push this agenda.

    Objectively, the period of the Reagan Administration is considered as one of greatest periods of economic prosperity in modern times.

    I understand such substantiated facts are typically met with "yea but's", however, those can't change the truth.

    Now one may argue they don't like the methods, and they don't like some of the benefactors, but the economic turn around the Reagan Administration championed was dramatic, and long lived.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    You are welcome to assume, but that is only your opinion.

    Are you suggesting there hasn't been a concerted effort to identify the Reagan Administration as the beginning of the end of prosperity in the United States?

    There are classes offered in many of the major liberal college campuses across the country that push this agenda.

    Objectively, the period of the Reagan Administration is considered as one of greatest periods of economic prosperity in modern times.

    I understand such substantiated facts are typically met with "yea but's", however, those can't change the truth.

    Now one may argue they don't like the methods, and they don't like some of the benefactors, but the economic turn around the Reagan Administration championed was dramatic, and long lived.
    Only by a few. And despite they're efforts, the Reagan myth endures.

    But this has nothing at all to do with Reagan. he like all presidents take credit where it is not deserved and gets blame where not deserved. This is about objectively do taxes and regulations have a significant effect. The research says no.

    You are free to present any actual research you have. But merely being president when the economy is good isn't enough. History documents well that the economy has been good and bad with high tax rates. And that the economy has been good and poor with low tax rates. All evidence, objective evidence, shows minimal effect.

    Such is also true with regulations. Though the real issue with regulations isn't effect on business, but whether they are truly needed or not. Strangely I rarely ever see a thread attacking any regulation in that way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: U.S. Adds 195,000 Jobs; Unemployment Remains 7.6%

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Bush did "nothing to cause the Bush Great Recession??"



    Even Bush himself disagrees with you...


    "Thanks to our policies, home ownership in America is at an all-time high." ~ George Bush, RNC acceptance speech
    Oh, I see you like to shorten up what I typed out. That's OK. I never expect honesty out of a liberal, never. Not a single one of them have it in them. He probably did say something like that. But it had nothing to do with what caused the housing crash. That started before he even thought about running for the office of President. Slick Willie and Janet Reno delivered a 5000 gallon fuel tanker to the housing bubble and as soon as all the fuel was transferred, boom, down goes the market. But you won't ever say anything about their major part in designing and implementing the crash. And you will also ignore Obamas push at the banks to repeat the same thing all over again. Why? Because you are a liberal and failure is always somebody else's fault, never the brain dead idea.

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