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Thread: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Can someone please explain to me how wearing a tiny symbol of one's religion possibly be offensive?

    I have thrown every possible scenario I can imagine against the wall and thus far nothing has stuck!
    I support the employer's right to dictate the dress code.

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, I am trying to bring this back around....The term "disruptive" has a specific meaning. If you are in a classroom than the standard can be pretty low, but as we have seen on university campuses before, some of these prayer meetings were in dorm room behind closed doors, and broken up by so called tolerance, or diversity enforcers...I am thinking that this so called standard is a rouse.
    Well, the prayer meeting is clearly not disruptive.

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Can someone please explain to me how wearing a tiny symbol of one's religion possibly be offensive?

    I have thrown every possible scenario I can imagine against the wall and thus far nothing has stuck!
    What if Jews were offended by the wearing of a piece of jewelry with the Takbir written on it?

    Should the words "Allahu Ahkbar" be deemed offensive because Muslim terrorists often use the words when they blow up civilians?

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    I am going to play the devils advocate here. What some people consider disruptive is not what others may consider disruptive. For instance a christian probably does not find the cross offensive, but a person who has been persecuted by christians may find the cross being worn by the representatives of a welcoming group working for the university to be opressive. It may tell an atheist your views are not welcome here, as often is pushed by the christian religion. Jews and muslims have suffered greatly at the hands of christians over the years, and even in the present and may have experienced hate from christians first hand. Therefor a representative of the school performing a job which is meant to be welcoming to all would be disrputing their own activities by representing a religion that may be offensive to others.

    If you do not understand the problem perhaps a different symbol would help illustrate the problem better. Let us say the girl believed in nazi idealism and was wearing a swastika, but she was also performing her job in a pleasant way to all people at the time. It is her right to have her ideas, but according to some around here she should not have to take off her symbol simply because it would make other people rightfully nervous. Though many christians may find offense to their symbol bothersome, it is the fault of your own religion for being so hateful and conflicting over the years that others are caused offense by it's presence.

    One also must remember this girl was not simply walking around with her symbol, she was representing the college as a job. Jobs have dress codes for many reasons, and one of them is to make customers feel comfortable. Many of those dress codes often rely on open ended words to allow managers to remove creative employees who will do whatever they can to express themselves in a way that may not be appreciated by the employer. When you fail to have a dress code is when you often find that one problem child who does stupid things for a reaction. I do remember working in an office on halloween when they allowed people to wear costumes and one of the office problem children thought it a great idea to come in in a trench coat and nothing else in october in the northeast. One would have thought the cold on his nuts as he left the house that morning would have at least told him this was a really stupid idea. Unfortunately letting people think for themselves results in some really stupid ideas, and when you are at a job you are not representing yourself anymore.

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Can someone please explain to me how wearing a tiny symbol of one's religion possibly be offensive?
    Once a gay couple complained about cross neclace of mine and I was reassigned to another job. I was told they assumed I was against homosexuality and that made them feel uncomfortable in their ow home.

    People are wierd.

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Etoner View Post
    What if Jews were offended by the wearing of a piece of jewelry with the Takbir written on it?

    Should the words "Allahu Ahkbar" be deemed offensive because Muslim terrorists often use the words when they blow up civilians?
    If the offensive symbol is being worn by a person who is representing the university and not just themselves, then yes the symbol is offensive. If the university is not portraying any specific religious values then it should not have to portray the individual values of the person representing them. If that person is wandering around only representing themselves then others have to deal with it, but the person employing you does not have to.

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Let's not be too unfair. They do allow at least one religious symbol on campus. http://www.muslimahsource.org/activi...meena-jandali/

    How is a 2011 article about a Muslim mother of elementary-age children relevant to a story about a university in 2013?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirica View Post
    Actually, I have been to a few_

    In fact, I've earned degrees from as well as visited friends and colleagues at enough of them to know that the rules which are designed primarily for non-liberal groups are enforced to a much greater degree than those which are not_

    Did you know that being disruptive and offensive is quite common for radical leftist students and even staff_

    But there's rarely any serious consequences for their bad behavior, instead the university often defends them_

    This is the selective tolerance rationale of those in charge at many institutions of higher learning_

    You seriously believe "it's not personal"???

    Then what rational reason could there possibly be for such a "dumb rule"?!

    Occam's razor would suggest "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one"_

    This aint rocket surgery girls and boys___it's basic Common Sense 101_
    do I know that your anecdotes concerning conservative "oppression" on university campuses are worthless? Why yes I do.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, I am trying to bring this back around....The term "disruptive" has a specific meaning. If you are in a classroom than the standard can be pretty low, but as we have seen on university campuses before, some of these prayer meetings were in dorm room behind closed doors, and broken up by so called tolerance, or diversity enforcers...I am thinking that this so called standard is a rouse.

    Really? Care to provide some links to support your assertions?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University Tells Student to Remove Cross Necklace

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    to both of you on this part of exaggeration, I would say you are wrong, and wrong for this reason, here is disney's first statement that brought in this part of the disagreement...



    disney did say that students had the right to pray anytime they wanted, but silently. He asserted that to pray out loud would be disruptive. That is a crock. So when adpst said what he said to have Boo call it exaggerating was incorrect. adpst was exactly right in his assertion as to what disney said. I guess technically you could pray out loud without opening your mouth, but I'd like to see it.

    To Joe, you're right being polite is not too much to ask, and if someone is praying, the polite thing to do if you don't want to hear it is to move along. As for this supposed "right" to not be annoyed, show me where this is in the bill of rights, I don't believe I've seen that...

    To Mike, and Joe - The key here hinges on what is "disruptive"? If a student, or student group stands up in the middle of a class, and interrupts the teacher with prayer, then yes, I would agree that is disruptive. But, if you have that same group, saying a prayer in the quad before starting their day, and you don't like it? So what? move along...The problem is not that they are trying to impose anything on either of you, but rather the other way around, you're trying to quash their practice, thereby imposing your beliefs on them.
    No it wasn't. In context, he was speaking of a classroom setting. It is dishonest to take words out of context, and an exaggeration.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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