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Thread: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Which is all pretty irrelevant. The Turkish military acted as a stabilizing force when a government become too polarized and order broke down.
    Really. Is that what we have seen, lately?

    The Morsy government was very polarizing. Like the Turkish Military the Egyptian military seems to see itself as an autonomous force whose goal is to keep the government in check.
    Yes. We have a word for that sort of thing. It is called "Junta". It has a bad connotation for good reason. Ceding sovereignty to the military rather than the people is a form of government. What it is not, however, is representative government.

    Like I said...pretty similar role for the military and it worked for Turkey for a long time.
    For decades. And we were willing to tolerate the abuses of such a system. The result is radicalized out-groups.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post


    Unemployment among the young was at 25% before the revolution, and it's only risen since then. The Muslim Brotherhood remains the largest and best organized political movement in Egypt, and now it has been radicalized from the Democratic process, causing it to call for uprisings. The second largest party behind the Muslim Brotherhood, al-Nour, who has traditionally held the view that Democracy is un-Islamic, and was only (barely) pulled into the political process by the Brotherhood in the first place has just pulled out of the political process. They will likely now go back to their more traditional like-minded groups who are launching attacks in the Sinai and seeking to destroy the Tourism trade that previously provided about 10% of Egyptian GDP.

    Speaking of which:



    Fuel subsidies alone are sucking up 8% of Egypt's GDP, and - along with food subsidies - drowning the government which can no longer survive without outside assistance. Egypt has to import 50% of the bread its populace is dependent on, and it is rapidly running out of the money to do so as food prices rise. To fix Egypt's economic slide would require a hefty amount of political and social trust and willingness for competing political groups to come to compromises, except now we are at the point where political groups are solving their disputes like this:



    Oh, but hey! An erudite 12 year old who has been taught to say things that will appeal to a Western Audience!

    There are good people who want a modern nation, free from tyranny and oppression from bronze age superstition.
    Yeah. Too bad they are less than a third of the populace, eh?

  3. #123
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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Really. Is that what we have seen, lately?
    .
    So true...it's impossible to make comparisons to situations which happened in the past. I missed that memo.

    Yes. We have a word for that sort of thing. It is called "Junta". It has a bad connotation for good reason. Ceding sovereignty to the military rather than the people is a form of government. What it is not, however, is representative government.
    Not the same thing.

    The country wasn't ruled by the military except for brief periods after restoring order.

    For decades. And we were willing to tolerate the abuses of such a system. The result is radicalized out-groups.
    Radical groups already flourish in the region. That's the whole problem. Religious fanatics and Democracy cannot coexist.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

  4. #124
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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    So true...it's impossible to make comparisons to situations which happened in the past.
    Well, you were responding to the "until Erdogan" statement.

    Not the same thing.

    The country wasn't ruled by the military except for brief periods after restoring order.
    The country is ruled by the military much to the same manner in which this country is run by the people - the military there exercises sovereignty and reserves the right to overturn all other decision-makers. To include the people themselves. So, yeah. The Sovereign is Sovereign.

    Radical groups already flourish in the region. That's the whole problem. Religious fanatics and Democracy cannot coexist.
    Sort of. I think you have that bacwards. Democracy degrades fanatics by integrating them.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Sort of. I think you have that bacwards. Democracy degrades fanatics by integrating them.
    I generally agree with you but not in all cases. I think there are political groups that are dangerous to Democracy when they gain a majority. Rather than being in the game to influence policy they are in the game to completely rewrite the rules. Democracy is a means rather than an end for them.
    Last edited by iliveonramen; 07-09-13 at 11:52 AM.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by L0neW0lf View Post
    How exactly did Obama influence the elections or the initial revolution in Egypt? how did he put the brotherhood in power?


    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I generally agree with you but not in all cases. I think there are political groups that are dangerous to Democracy when they gain a majority. Rather than being in the game to influence policy they are in the game to completely rewrite the rules. Democracy is a means rather than an end for them.
    True enough. But if we have learned anything post-enlightenment, it is that damnably tempting facet of representative government.

    The MB needed to lose power democratically, and it needed to happen in such a way that they would accept the result and instead move to restore power through the democratic process. Now, that seems rather unlikely (at least, in the near term).

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post


    Yeah. And the Muslim Brotherhood is angry at us because we are backing the SCAF.



    Good ole lead from behind. The U.S. Egypt Policy is so defunct, no one in Egypt even knows what it is.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post

    It's on a sign, it must be true.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It's on a sign, it must be true.


    We are now less popular than we were under George Bush.

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