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Thread: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I don't disagree that Morsi was an Islamist and that Islamists generally do not believe in Democracy... though they can adjust to it (see: Iran, which is sort of half a democracy). Nor do I claim that Morsi wasn't an authoritarian. I simply point out that military coups and mobs do not denote legitimacy in a representative form of government - elections do.
    I know I shouldn’t bother, but what is it about elections that are so sacrosanct without any other theological issues being addressed?

    Elections mean nothing without the theory that backs them up.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I know I shouldn’t bother, but what is it about elections that are so sacrosanct without any other theological issues being addressed?

    Elections mean nothing without the theory that backs them up.
    Correct. Look at our own country during our last election. A determined effort directed by the Obama administration to discourage, intimidate, frustrate and threaten with jail a large group of people that generally oppose everything Obama and the rest of the -ist's want to do. It went on for about three years but hit high gear after it was clear the group had very rapidly gained political strength with the domination it had with the midterm elections. Yes, we had an election in 2012 but the results were clearly influenced by the illegal and corrupt actions done by the Obama administration.
    We sort of have a democracy nowadays but only when falls in line with what the leftists at the top want. Pass a law, doesn't matter, they do what they want. The constitution? They have no use for it.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    The Supreme Court? SCOTUS?
    yup ... SCOTUS

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Until Erdogan.
    Sure but that's still playing out.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Sure but that's still playing out.
    yes but you could say that about any current situation - making it.... sort of... well, not useful for commentary. I don't really think that Turkey's military is likely to stage coup in the near future in Turkey.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I know I shouldn’t bother, but what is it about elections that are so sacrosanct without any other theological issues being addressed?

    Elections mean nothing without the theory that backs them up.
    The theory is that sovereignty flows from the people to the State, not the other way around. The mechanism for that flow is elections. Without them, its' just self-proclaimed avatars of the people claiming to be acting on their behalf. Representative Government > Liking the Results of a Particular Election

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yes but you could say that about any current situation - making it.... sort of... well, not useful for commentary. I don't really think that Turkey's military is likely to stage coup in the near future in Turkey.
    The Turkish military has conducted multiple coups since the 60's when the government either grew too polarizing or lost control. In all coups Democracy was re established. Hence why I likened the Turkish military and their role to the possible role of the Egyptian military.

    Seems to be a pretty useful comparison to me!
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    The Turkish military has conducted multiple coups since the 60's when the government either grew too polarizing or lost control. In all coups Democracy was re established. Hence why I likened the Turkish military and their role to the possible role of the Egyptian military.

    Seems to be a pretty useful comparison to me!
    The Turkish military was neutered during the Trials of the Generals when Erdogan went through and wiped out the power bases capable of fomenting a coup. It is possible they have a particularly charismatic junior leader somewhere, but unlikely, especially given that the Islamist party in Turkey remains the largest party by far, with a fractured opposition unlikely to pose any real challenges in the future.

    you can compare them, but when it comes to de-islamisization, not well. The Egyptian military was just fine with letting the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Nour parties be the largest two in the Egyptian government, just as they were happy to drop el Baradei when Islamists protested.

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Turkish military was neutered during the Trials of the Generals when Erdogan went through and wiped out the power bases capable of fomenting a coup. It is possible they have a particularly charismatic junior leader somewhere, but unlikely, especially given that the Islamist party in Turkey remains the largest party by far, with a fractured opposition unlikely to pose any real challenges in the future.

    you can compare them, but when it comes to de-islamisization, not well. The Egyptian military was just fine with letting the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Nour parties be the largest two in the Egyptian government, just as they were happy to drop el Baradei when Islamists protested.

    Which is all pretty irrelevant. The Turkish military acted as a stabilizing force when a government become too polarized and order broke down.

    The Morsy government was very polarizing. Like the Turkish Military the Egyptian military seems to see itself as an autonomous force whose goal is to keep the government in check.

    Like I said...pretty similar role for the military and it worked for Turkey for a long time.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Egypt army commander suspends constitution[W:95]

    12-Year Old Explains Egyptian Revolution in Under 3 Minutes | REALfarmacy.com | Healthy News and Information

    This kid is my new hero. There is hope for Egypt. There are good people who want a modern nation, free from tyranny and oppression from bronze age superstition. There are a lot within the younger generations in a lot of countries, who have learned about the world through mass communication and the internet, who aren't interested in relics of the past or separating people based on gender, religion, or sexuality. Building a modern nation is tricky, and Egypt isn't giving up the fight.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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