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Thread: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

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    Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    After the mass protests demanding the ousting of Egyptian President Morsi on Sunday, the General Al-Sisi of the Army issues ultimatum to Morsi to share power or be removed forcibly. President Morsi has responded by declaring he would rather die than step down. Al-Sisi responded in kind and announced he and his forces are too ready to fight to the death.

    Meanwhile, the protests, which are already larger than those that pushed out Mubarak two years ago during the Arab Spring, are getting more violent and the death toll is climbing.

    The Army's deadline for Morsi to relinquish power is 4:30pm Wednesday. That's 9:30am Eastern time.

    Mursi, Egypt army pledge lives in 'final hours' showdown | Reuters

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    After the mass protests demanding the ousting of Egyptian President Morsi on Sunday, the General Al-Sisi of the Army issues ultimatum to Morsi to share power or be removed forcibly. President Morsi has responded by declaring he would rather die than step down. Al-Sisi responded in kind and announced he and his forces are too ready to fight to the death.

    Meanwhile, the protests, which are already larger than those that pushed out Mubarak two years ago during the Arab Spring, are getting more violent and the death toll is climbing.

    The Army's deadline for Morsi to relinquish power is 4:30pm Wednesday. That's 9:30am Eastern time.

    Mursi, Egypt army pledge lives in 'final hours' showdown | Reuters
    Already a thread on this but your post is more current so I’ll comment.

    I think the military will remove President Morsi, install a temporary government and take a more active role in protecting the legitimacy of the process than they did last time around. I don’t expect immediate action from the military but I do expect them to gradually get more involved in things and assert their power more forcibly in the coming days or weeks.

    Morsi blew it when he usurped powers that he had no authority to usurp but the Egyptian people gave him a chance to make some meaningful changes. Things have gotten worse for them in almost every way possible and it has become evident that Morsi is only interested in retaining power and forcing his Islamist rule upon a fairly secular society.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Already a thread on this but your post is more current so I’ll comment.

    I think the military will remove President Morsi, install a temporary government and take a more active role in protecting the legitimacy of the process than they did last time around. I don’t expect immediate action from the military but I do expect them to gradually get more involved in things and assert their power more forcibly in the coming days or weeks.

    Morsi blew it when he usurped powers that he had no authority to usurp but the Egyptian people gave him a chance to make some meaningful changes. Things have gotten worse for them in almost every way possible and it has become evident that Morsi is only interested in retaining power and forcing his Islamist rule upon a fairly secular society.
    May the same fate follow to all those whom impose religious dictatorships!
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Stats come out and always show life getting better. News makes money in making you think its not.
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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Meh. Morsi isn't in trouble for being an Islamist. He's in trouble because he was unable to deliver the goods. Egypt's economy has drizzled downwards since the elections.


    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I think the military will remove President Morsi, install a temporary government and take a more active role in protecting the legitimacy of the process than they did last time around. I don’t expect immediate action from the military but I do expect them to gradually get more involved in things and assert their power more forcibly in the coming days or weeks.
    I don't know. The Stratfor guys think that the military doesn't want to rule - it just wants to be left alone with its' power and privileges. That strikes me as pretty plausible.

    Morsi blew it when he usurped powers that he had no authority to usurp but the Egyptian people gave him a chance to make some meaningful changes. Things have gotten worse for them in almost every way possible and it has become evident that Morsi is only interested in retaining power and forcing his Islamist rule upon a fairly secular society.
    the party that got the most votes next to the Muslim Brotherhood was the al Nour party - the Salafists who are even more Islamist than the MB. "A Fairly Secular Society"?

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Meh. Morsi isn't in trouble for being an Islamist. He's in trouble because he was unable to deliver the goods. Egypt's economy has drizzled downwards since the elections.
    I agree with you, in part, if you consider a part of “the goods” to be a legitimate constitutional referendum. My position is that the people of Egypt have a natural right to overthrow Morsi, even though he was democratically elected. I’d be interested in your views on this issue.



    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I don't know. The Stratfor guys think that the military doesn't want to rule - it just wants to be left alone with its' power and privileges. That strikes me as pretty plausible.
    I never said the military wants to rule. I think the military wants a legitimate government. Morsi broke his social contract with the people and became illegitimate almost as soon as he was elected. Democratic elections don’t define legitimacy do they?


    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the party that got the most votes next to the Muslim Brotherhood was the al Nour party - the Salafists who are even more Islamist than the MB. "A Fairly Secular Society"?
    Yes, it's a fairly secular society considering its location and demographics. I’m interested in why you might disagree with this. Just because the radical groups were more organized in getting votes out doesn’t mean most Egyptians are radical Islamists. In the end however, it's all about legitimacy and Morsi has none right now.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    repeat post
    Last edited by cpwill; 07-03-13 at 10:12 AM.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I agree with you, in part, if you consider a part of “the goods” to be a legitimate constitutional referendum. My position is that the people of Egypt have a natural right to overthrow Morsi, even though he was democratically elected. I’d be interested in your views on this issue.
    Like him or not, Morsi won in a legitimate election, and was the legitimate constitutional choice of the Egyptian people. Mobs in the street do not have a natural right to overthrown the legally expressed will of the Egyptian populace.

    Look, I don't like Morsi, I was one of the first to say that the MB would take over and it would go badly. But what we have just established is a new standard - if you can get enough people in the streets and destroy the right amount of property, you can overturn an election and overthrow the government you don't like. We just gave everyone who can bring a mob to bear in Cairo a veto over governance.

    I never said the military wants to rule. I think the military wants a legitimate government. Morsi broke his social contract with the people and became illegitimate almost as soon as he was elected.
    That is incorrect. Morsi was always an Islamist, the people knew precisely who they were getting. He is, in fact, the only actor in this three-part play that has a claim to legitimacy.

    Democratic elections don’t define legitimacy do they?
    So long as they are (and Egypt's broadly were) free from fraud, yes.

    Yes, it's a fairly secular society considering its location and demographics.
    if you meant in comparison to - say - Saudi Arabia, I would agree with you. If you were saying in comparison to Morsi.... not quite as much, no. Egypt is not a fairly secular society. For example, pew studies in 2010 found that Egyptians were more likely to support Hamas and Hezbollah than Palestinians.

    I’m interested in why you might disagree with this. Just because the radical groups were more organized in getting votes out doesn’t mean most Egyptians are radical Islamists. In the end however, it's all about legitimacy and Morsi has none right now.
    No, what Morsi lacks now is the level of popularity he previously enjoyed. That is not the same as "legitimacy". Millions marched against President Obama, too. That doesn't make him not the rightful president of the U.S.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    After the mass protests demanding the ousting of Egyptian President Morsi on Sunday, the General Al-Sisi of the Army issues ultimatum to Morsi to share power or be removed forcibly. President Morsi has responded by declaring he would rather die than step down. Al-Sisi responded in kind and announced he and his forces are too ready to fight to the death.

    Meanwhile, the protests, which are already larger than those that pushed out Mubarak two years ago during the Arab Spring, are getting more violent and the death toll is climbing.

    The Army's deadline for Morsi to relinquish power is 4:30pm Wednesday. That's 9:30am Eastern time.

    Mursi, Egypt army pledge lives in 'final hours' showdown | Reuters



    "Freedom is messy." ~ Donald Rumsfeld.

    And getting messier.

    But it does give the news media something to do.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Like him or not, Morsi won in a legitimate election, and was the legitimate constitutional choice of the Egyptian people. Mobs in the street do not have a natural right to overthrown the legally expressed will of the Egyptian populace.

    Look, I don't like Morsi, I was one of the first to say that the MB would take over and it would go badly. But what we have just established is a new standard - if you can get enough people in the streets and destroy the right amount of property, you can overturn an election and overthrow the government you don't like. We just gave everyone who can bring a mob to bear in Cairo a veto over governance.
    There is a thing called "buyers remorse" in this case they now find they voted in the wrong guy. Presidents, leaders, dictators etc are ousted, impeached all the time. I don't care if Morsi is the legitimate constitutional choice, that does not mean he can drive the country into the black hole of destruction. This is exactly what the people have witnessed and are experiencing, thus they "the people" have every right to kick his ass out.

    You buy an item at the store with all good intentions that it is going to do what the label says it will do. You then find it's a piece of junk, what do you do, you take it back. Same goes for Morsi.
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    I was of the understanding Obama was supposed to have the world love us again. Not so much in Egypt

    Doug Ross @ Journal: 15 Photos From the Tahrir Square Protests You'll Never See In Legacy Media. #Egypt #Morsi #Obama
    Liberals - Punish the Successful, Reward the Unsuccessful
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    Obama's legacy - President Donald Trump

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