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Thread: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But the US has had 240 years od Democracy with many bumps along the way, including a Civil War, and now it appears that the DOJ may have been working with the IRS and FBI. Democracy is a messy business, for sure, and it seems to me that the people were right to fight the problems they face against the Muslim Brotherhood before they became entrenched as precedence. They are, as Barney Fife might say, nipping it in the bud.
    The following are the exchanges from another thread but appropriate in this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    As much as I detest Morsi, he was elected in a democratic election.

    MY RESPONSE:
    WTF is wrong with people like you ?!?!?
    Hitler was elected "democratically" !!!!! Does that mean you were/are going to defend that butthole because he was elected "democratically" ?!?!?!?
    --------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Examples of leaders who were not democratically elected

    Godwin's Law

    That, however, is neither here nor there. Obama was also democratically elected, and he is also an abuser of the law and a generally gawdawful president. If someone in the military were to attempt to use the Tea Party as an excuse to launch a coup, however, I would find myself rapidly in (quite possibly) armed opposition to that group.

    You seem to be confusing "representative government" with the winner of a particular election.

    MY RESPONSE:

    Your libber verbiage is transparent. One can always claim EVERY election is rigged because of one's own personal bias.

    Using the same kind of bullpoop Obummer was elected by a 95% plus black vote, and by non-black voters consumed with a faulty guilt complex re blacks which makes the Obummer election clearly a RACIST election.
    ------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm guessing this is the one you got all butt-hurt and messaged me about? Okay, flex, just for you :
    Nope, Not too smart are you? For future reference, you might want to think twice about challenging me because you don't get to call me out and then pretend you forgot you called me out. Do your homework lazy ass. I just schooled you on political science and you ran away like a scared little girl.

    Review my responses and answer in kind or check out as a coward who has no game!

    You called me out and then ran away. I'm calling you out because you called me out and then decided it was easier to post BS to another thread rather than deal with the reality my question and answer forced you into. I call you a coward if you call me out on an issue and choose to ignore my response.
    Last edited by GPS_Flex; 07-05-13 at 05:20 AM.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    alright. if you're too busy being butt-hurt that your oh-so-special post didn't get replied to by me immediately, I accept that you choose to end the discussion. All you had to do was decently ask about it and I would have hurried on over, replied,and apologized for the delay.


    But if you're more interested in making yourself look silly.... I really can't help you.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    I understand. You picked the fight and called me out with your little question and answer games but you quickly realized you were in over your head and couldn’t explain yourself.

    No hard feelings…this forum is full of political hacks like you who think they can solve ever issue with a one line zinger.

    I expected you to be a little more schooled on the history of the Constitution and the enlightenment thinkers that rally set the premise for serious discussion of issues like this. Was I wrong? Are you a lightweight thinker who chose Benjamin Franklin because he is on our money?

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    I agree with your hypothetical as written but if we were to modify your hypothetical to make it better represent the events that have actually transpired in Egypt, I would remain consistent in my views. If, theoretically, Obama were to push through amendments to the constitution without following the proper ratification process, followed by granting himself unlimited powers to protect the nation and rebuffed the Supreme Court of the United States when it ruled that his action were unconstitutional, issuing a decree that his power was beyond review by the courts, then yes, I would consider action by the military to remove him from office as legitimate. The fact that he was elected wouldn’t matter at this point because his legitimacy would be invalidated, having broken the social contract with the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    1. Who is really in charge of Egypt right now?

    A: The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.
    B: El Baradi, who apparently is the spokesman of the Tamarod movement, but who appears to be exercising zero power.
    C: The pupped that the SCAF just finished installing as interem president, and whom it can remove at will.
    I choose "A: The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces."

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill
    Which do Military's tend to be?

    A: Authoritarian.
    B: Freedom loving hippies who wouldn't want to impose on anyone.
    I choose "A: Authoritarian."


    While this was indeed a fun game, it’s irrelevance in this case is rather glaring due to the omission of the following relevant facts:

    Egypt’s military removed Mubarak from power and facilitated the transition to a new and democratically elected government. In Egypt’s case, the military has, and is, acting as a branch of government to assure there are checks and balances that can’t be waived/rebuffed by an executive like Morsi. The military had never completely let go of its ability to check the executive branch but it was trying to allow the people to choose their own way. When Morsi began to establish himself as an authoritarian that couldn’t be removed in the future, and the people finally said they’d had enough with 2-3 million taking to the streets (that's not a mob), the military decided to step in to preserve the country and prevent a civil war. It is preparing to facilitate the transition to a newly elected government. Honestly, I’m very impressed with how Egypt’s military has conducted itself.

    Are you, then. Well, I'm glad to hear that the military is stepping in to ensure that violence is avoided and free democracy and good governance is maintained.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You forget that the difference between the US right and Morsi are very small. Both believe in many of the same things and act in the same way. Hence Morsi was a hero to the radical religious right in the US, because he did what they have not (as of yet) been able to do.. push a religious based government through favoring themselves and putting other religions and sects within their own at a massive disadvantage.
    Correction.....that would be the Neo Cons on the Right. Not the Right itself.

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I'm guessing this is the one you got all butt-hurt and messaged me about? Okay, flex, just for you :



    I don't deny Morsi was authoritarian nor do I deny that he was abusive of his power. Pointing out that mobs and junta's do not confer representative legitimacy is hardly a defense of every idiot politician who manages to win more votes than the other guys. Mind you, if you want Egypt to be able to move forward at this point, you are almost going to need a politician willing and able to do so, as only a powerful presidency would be able to stand up to the military. That doesn't excuse Morsi's actions, but it does place them in the proper, tragic, light. There isn't really a James Madison / George Washington / John Marshall option in Egypt. Your options are: A) a democratically elected MB or B) non-democratically elected power bases from the Mubarak era. C) Liberal Democracy isn't really on the menu at this point. Those who would support it are too few and too fractured to form a base for political power.



    No and that is an excellent qualifier - the elections must be free and fair, which, again, Egypts' were. Had the MB abused the next set of elections to make them not free and fair - or had they gone the route of Hamas in Palestine and simply neglected to have any, then your argument here would have more merit. However, they did not do that.



    I think you are being entertainingly narcissistic You may find this hard to believe, but approximately zero percent of my self image revolves around you.

    Not necessarily so CPW.....when groups of the MB looked to go with someone who was in the MB that wasn't Rank. Who do you think they were told to vote for? Much of this is due to the people knowing that the last election wasn't fair. Was taken off course by the MB.

    The MB in Egypt has proven exactly what they are.....once they decided to go after Christians and Non Identifying Arabs. This isn't about them standing for Democracy.

    Moreover to let them continue on with whatever version of Democracy is within their own minds.....isn't the way to go either. As they will seek to usurp all meaning of Democracy from the Western Civilized World. To mock, breakdown, and use its own set of tools to break down itself.

    The MB has stated there will be No negotiations. That they will not accept nor tolerate. Such words from those not strong enuff to back the play. Do you think the MB should be making threats and committing purposeful attacks upon those that are Innocent? Their fight is with the Egyptian Military. Whom they think they can take on. Not unarmed people who can't fight back.

    So again.....Democracy and or any rule of Law. Would be at threat....from the MB. Do you think that the MB should be allowed to come out of its death-throes?

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Not necessarily so CPW.....when groups of the MB looked to go with someone who was in the MB that wasn't Rank. Who do you think they were told to vote for? Much of this is due to the people knowing that the last election wasn't fair. Was taken off course by the MB.

    The MB in Egypt has proven exactly what they are.....once they decided to go after Christians and Non Identifying Arabs. This isn't about them standing for Democracy.

    Moreover to let them continue on with whatever version of Democracy is within their own minds.....isn't the way to go either. As they will seek to usurp all meaning of Democracy from the Western Civilized World. To mock, breakdown, and use its own set of tools to break down itself.

    The MB has stated there will be No negotiations. That they will not accept nor tolerate. Such words from those not strong enuff to back the play. Do you think the MB should be making threats and committing purposeful attacks upon those that are Innocent? Their fight is with the Egyptian Military. Whom they think they can take on. Not unarmed people who can't fight back.

    So again.....Democracy and or any rule of Law. Would be at threat....from the MB. Do you think that the MB should be allowed to come out of its death-throes?
    Is it possible for us to support Egypt and help it succeed but not support the MB?

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Is it possible for us to support Egypt and help it succeed but not support the MB?
    The answer to that question.....yes it is. There are over 82 million people in Egypt. The MB is falling out grace throughout the ME. In Syria, in Libya, in Iraq. Now is the time to take them out. After it is all done and over with. No Egyptians will want to ever identify with them again. The People of Egypt are not Stupid. They see the MB throw Money to others in other countries as well. When they should be taking care of whats at home. They see them go after the innocent. Turkish Egyptians, Berbers, Zaydi, and of course the Copts. You name it.

    Supporting the Military and then pushing them to give it to the people of Egypt would be a better way to go IMO. Let the people of Egypt pick their own Parties. Not the MB who takes power and gets rid of any competition by various groups. Also based on ethnicity.

    So if we are truly about wanting to see Egypt with a real democracy. Standing for that Noble Virtue of a Government by the people, of the people, and for the people. A Republic.....then it is time that the MB be removed from all discussions going forward. Permanently!

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    Re: Crisis in Egypt: Morsi and General Al-Sisi vow death

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Nope, Not too smart are you? For future reference, you might want to think twice about challenging me because you don't get to call me out and then pretend you forgot you called me out. Do your homework lazy ass. I just schooled you on political science and you ran away like a scared little girl.

    Review my responses and answer in kind or check out as a coward who has no game!

    You called me out and then ran away. I'm calling you out because you called me out and then decided it was easier to post BS to another thread rather than deal with the reality my question and answer forced you into. I call you a coward if you call me out on an issue and choose to ignore my response.
    Yes, you really know hot to debate!

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