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Thread: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

  1. #61
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    1.)Fact: most states ban SSM, these bans are legal and haven't changed.
    2.) Fact: I have backed up my statements, I have pointed to the SSM bans in other states and the legality of DOMA when concerning a state's right to redefine marriage to include SSM.
    3.)Here is the fact: the chart is old because Cali is likely to become a SSM approving state, but this is what is factually correct concerning marriage in the states.

    4.) Stop throwing around the word "fact." It doesn't make you magically right.
    5.) Also, recognize where your opinions are exactly that, opinions.
    6.) It's your opinion that SSM is an equal rights issue or somehow on par with racial discrimination. That's not a fact, that's your opinion and your view.
    1.) yes this is a fact and this changes NOTHING to the discssuion. the issue wasnt heard in those states by a court
    2.) no t a fact. no you havent because your argument fails majorly, the courts havent heard the issue for all those stats nor did scotus tackle the issue. Scotus DID NOT have a direct rulling on if state bans are constitutional. SO there is no fact here, you simply do not understand the difference.
    3.) yes thats how it is currently which has nothing to do with what im discussing. nothing
    4.) everything i called a fact is indeed a fact disagree please prove otherwise.
    5.) yes i agree when we are discussing my opinions thats is exactly what they are and no more. is there an example where i factually pushed my opinion to be more than that?
    6.) false, its a FACT for the courts that have actually hear this issues, they decided it violated equality. My opinion is meaningless to them.
    7.) see answer 6, you are confused.

    i noticed you still havent answered my question yet but that was in another post
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    You still have yet to answer.
    did you not read post 57? guess not lol
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Fact: most states ban SSM, these bans are legal and haven't changed (with one exception, California where existing same sex unions would be nullified).
    Fact: I have backed up my statements, I have pointed to the SSM bans in other states and the legality of DOMA when concerning a state's right to redefine marriage to include SSM.
    Here is the fact: the chart is old because Cali is likely to become a SSM approving state, but this is what is factually correct concerning marriage in the states.


    Stop throwing around the word "fact." It doesn't make you magically right. Also, recognize where your opinions are exactly that, opinions. It's your opinion that SSM is an equal rights issue or somehow on par with racial discrimination. That's not a fact, that's your opinion and your view.
    First of all, I want to point out that your map is outdated.

    Second, in most of those states where same sex couples cannot enter into marriage, those laws simply haven't been challenged yet. A law cannot be struck down until it is challenged in court.

    And last, along with the challenges in court that are likely to be popping up in so many states where same sex marriage is not allowed, there will also be pushes toward repealing those laws, several of which have a strong chance of making it.

    But this is still an issue about equality, whether you or anyone else recognizes it. States do not have the right to maintain laws, either enacted by voters or their representatives, that treat people differently and cannot be shown to further any legitimate state interest. Once challenged, laws that are like this are very likely to go down.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Yes, those were restrictions on entering marriage. None of them were a fundamental conflict with the very definition of marriage, though, so they were just restrictions. Trying to say that the definition of marriage as one man and one woman is a "restriction" against same sex couples is like saying that quacking and having webbed feet is a restriction against chickens from being ducks.
    You can argue this failed "definition of marriage" argument as much as you want but legally it will always be a failing argument. It didn't hold up in SCOTUS concerning DOMA so why would think it would hold up for the states?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    did you not read post 57? guess not lol
    I read it, it didn't answer anything. You have simply dodged the example because you think it is extreme. However, you still didn't address what would be your position if it were to happen. That is because you know you were wrong when you said just because the court says something makes it so, instead of just law. In other words, from my point of view, what I hear you saying, is that you trust the courts decisions 100% and that they can never be wrong.

    Still waiting on your answer instead of a dodge.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, I want to point out that your map is outdated.

    Second, in most of those states where same sex couples cannot enter into marriage, those laws simply haven't been challenged yet. A law cannot be struck down until it is challenged in court.

    And last, along with the challenges in court that are likely to be popping up in so many states where same sex marriage is not allowed, there will also be pushes toward repealing those laws, several of which have a strong chance of making it.

    But this is still an issue about equality, whether you or anyone else recognizes it. States do not have the right to maintain laws, either enacted by voters or their representatives, that treat people differently and cannot be shown to further any legitimate state interest. Once challenged, laws that are like this are very likely to go down.
    DING DING DING DING DING

    some how SOME people seem to think that a court not hearing a case yet is the same as the court ruling that its ok
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You can argue this failed "definition of marriage" argument as much as you want but legally it will always be a failing argument. It didn't hold up in SCOTUS concerning DOMA so why would think it would hold up for the states?
    Sorry, but the fact that chickens don't have webbed feet and don't quack isn't a restriction against them being ducks. It's that they just aren't ducks. It neither held up nor failed in the SCOTUS because it wasn't about the state definition of marriage. It was about whether or not the federal government had the right to override the state definition.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  8. #68
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    I read it, it didn't answer anything. You have simply dodged the example because you think it is extreme. However, you still didn't address what would be your position if it were to happen. That is because you know you were wrong when you said just because the court says something makes it so, instead of just law. In other words, from my point of view, what I hear you saying, is that you trust the courts decisions 100% and that they can never be wrong.

    Still waiting on your answer instead of a dodge.
    wow, here is the post again, since you have serious comprehension and honesty issues i will BOLD the important parts for you
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    theres nothign to answer
    what is your question?
    you made a meaningless statment that had nothign to do with anything

    what you are claiming is false and had no barring on what i said its something you made up in your head. go back reread my post and you will see how yours doesnt apply in any logical sense what so ever this is why other posters even pointed this out, thats why its apples and oranges. try to keep up
    so please stop making stuff up because it will only cause me and other posted to point it out again

    let me know if you are still confused
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    The following is for people who have a fear of homosexuals...





    As a heterosexual, I'm puzzled, amazed, and completely astounded at the belief systems of those who are somehow intimidated by a very small population of people who in no way impacts the majorities lives in any respect. I'm really beginning to wonder if humanity deserves to survive extinction, which if it happens will be a product of its inability to get over its need to abuse itself.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    wow, here is the post again, since you have serious comprehension and honesty issues i will BOLD the important parts for you


    so please stop making stuff up because it will only cause me and other posted to point it out again

    let me know if you are still confused
    Ok since you are incapable of comprehending the statement let me restate it for you....

    You said that because a court says something makes it more than just law, it makes it so. What I take that to mean is that the court is always right.

    That being said, if there were to come up a case where a court decided that we have the right to kill for any reason, aka murder, would you still hold that postion, or would you cry foul the court is wrong?
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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