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Thread: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    I can't help it if you guys don't accept the facts. I'm not going through all of that again, no need, you are closed minded.
    Since your little interchange with Agent J started with you claiming that homosexuality is immoral... and since we know that morality is relevant, he's right. You've already been proven wrong. But as far as facts go, I'd like to see some of the "facts" that you claim you've posted on this issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    You're moving the goal posts now. No one said grade school kids were being shown how to fist another boy, BUT, they are being taught homosexual normalcy WHICH is a matter of opinion with no shred of scientific fact.
    Tim, Tim, Tim. We've been over this many times. Homosexuality has been proven to be normal. Just because you don't accept it as such, just because you refuse to acknowledge the designations of all of the world's major psychological, medical, and scientific groups that it is, doesn't alter that it IS.


    Now, I'm sure you'll say that peer reviewed studies from this psychological associate vs. that psychological association are facts, but can we at least agree that many people do NOT assign the same level of scientific discipline to the social sciences, as they do to the more commonly accepted hard sciences that rely on repeatable and unequivocal data?
    Not many people. People like you who don't like the results that the studies reveal.
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    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Oh look, another thread about gay couples.
    If you don't like it, don't post in it or read it.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    BUT, in order to have exempt status, YOU (as in the church) will need to follow the law of the state via discrimination. It's an end around the constitution for organizations that oppose SSM, BUT still not completely out of the realm of possibility.


    Tim-
    Tim, this issue has been brought up before, and been debunked before. Churches do not have to accept any member they do not want to, nor do they need to perform weddings of anyone if they do not want to. I've seen several people post this slippery slope fallacy and it most often belongs in the Conspiracy Theory Forum for all the veracity it has. It's nothing but another false scare tactic of what the "evil gays" will do. But tell you what. Post ONE legitimate and accurate situation in the US where the church was compelled to do something like this, and perhaps I will consider your point of having some validity.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Because some of us still have a moral compass.
    Morals are relative. You don't seem to know that, so I thought I'd tell you.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    ummmm, could you(meaning the left in general) stop comparing EVERY supposed social injustice to inter-racial marriage?!?! It's just gotten so freaking old at this point and it waters down the civil rights movement in general. I'm pretty sure if the NRA used the same tactics you seem to rely on to get laws passed you would be screaming bloody murder. But since they are things you WANT to be law you don't care how it's done(vote or no vote), is that it?

    not good. not good
    We use it because it is so applicable, because it is the same damn thing. The NRA couldn't use it because it has nothing to do with what they are lobbying for, while marriage rights, and civil rights in general are EXACTLY what we are arguing for.
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeTrumps View Post
    ummmm, could you(meaning the left in general) stop comparing EVERY supposed social injustice to inter-racial marriage?!?! It's just gotten so freaking old at this point and it waters down the civil rights movement in general. I'm pretty sure if the NRA used the same tactics you seem to rely on to get laws passed you would be screaming bloody murder. But since they are things you WANT to be law you don't care how it's done(vote or no vote), is that it?

    not good. not good
    im guessing since the comparison is logical and similar it will never end untill equality is achieved.
    Of course it bothers those that are against equality because it destroys just about any opposition and shinse a light on how silly arguing against it is and how wrong it is. Its good, very good.
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Fact: most states ban SSM, these bans are legal and haven't changed (with one exception, California where existing same sex unions would be nullified).
    Fact: I have backed up my statements, I have pointed to the SSM bans in other states and the legality of DOMA when concerning a state's right to redefine marriage to include SSM.
    Here is the fact: the chart is old because Cali is likely to become a SSM approving state, but this is what is factually correct concerning marriage in the states.

    Stop throwing around the word "fact." It doesn't make you magically right. Also, recognize where your opinions are exactly that, opinions. It's your opinion that SSM is an equal rights issue or somehow on par with racial discrimination. That's not a fact, that's your opinion and your view.
    Wrong Digs....it IS a FACT. Read Kennedy's opinion. He clearly indicated that while states are free to define marriage they MUST do so in a manner that doesn't violate the 5th Amendment. Even Scalia knows the days of government sponsored discrimination are numbered.
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Like Jim Crow laws were just "social issues"? Like inter-racial marriage defied the societal notion of marriage 40 years ago, and instead of letting people get on with their lives without government intervention, we should have let other people decided their future(or lack thereof) by putting it up to a vote? Which would never have passed back then, and still wouldn't pass even in some states today.

    Yeah, sounds like freedom alright.
    Seriously, SSM is not the same as Jim Crow and Brown vs Board. It's an illogical comparison similar to those who are anti-SSM bringing up polygamy, bestiality, incest, and any other sexual issue that is not similar to SSM.

    Freedom is allowing people to vote and have their beliefs heard. As of now state SSM bans are constitutional, people have that freedom. What is not freedom is to violate the voting rights of others, force them to go against their beliefs and impose morality upon societies that have decided that same sex unions are not within the definition of marriage. Freedom is not having those who loose in a democratic battle screaming and crying about feeling discriminated (when it isn't illegal) and then forcing their beliefs into law upon the majority. That is tyranny. Forcing states that have banned SSM to accept it is tyranny. It violates the principals of the people in that state and imposes a moral code upon people that have rejected such. In an identical way it would also be tyrannical to do so to a state that has approved of SSM but forcing them to go against that.
    Last edited by digsbe; 07-03-13 at 08:25 PM.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Seriously, SSM is not the same as Jim Crow and Brown vs Board. It's an illogical comparison similar to those who are anti-SSM bringing up polygamy, bestiality, incest, and any other sexual issue that is not similar to SSM.

    Freedom is allowing people to vote and have their beliefs heard. As of now state SSM bans are constitutional, people have that freedom. What is not freedom is to violate the voting rights of others, force them to go against their beliefs and impose morality upon societies that have decided that same sex unions are not within the definition of marriage. Freedom is not having those who loose in a democratic battle screaming and crying about feeling discriminated (when it isn't illegal) and then forcing their beliefs into law upon the majority. That is tyranny. Forcing states that have banned SSM to accept it is tyranny. It violates the principals of the people in that state and imposes a moral code upon people that have rejected such. In an identical way it would also be tyrannical to do so to a state that has approved of SSM but forcing them to go against that.
    According to what you just posted, then overturning interracial marriage bans was tyranny digsbe. The Loving decision was, according to this argument, a violation of freedom. Because interracial marriage bans were put into place for many of the same reasons that same sex marriage bans were put into place, imposition of a moral code. Those that opposed interracial marriage by far felt that it was morally objectionable to be in an interracial relationship. Even many blacks felt those bans belonged in place or at least opposed such relationships.
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