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Thread: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

  1. #251
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    All of those things except tax exemption HAVE already happened in states that allow SSM. I know of a few examples just in MA alone. Do some research, try googling the "little black book", and teacher takes kids to gay wedding.. You'll see that your websites claiming they are lies are actually lying to you both.


    Tim-
    Complete and utter bull ****
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    I have stated my position. Do you not understand that you've been responding to a series of posts asking for sources? Perhaps you should read for context before commenting on an ongoing thread. Incidentally, you're obviously not reading my sources very closely, because they discuss exactly what I'm claiming they do:

    The fact that proponents of prop 8 produced lots of ads that flat out lied about what prop 8 did. Do you deny either that such ads existed, or that they were factually inaccurate? If not, whether or not they're "rabidly pro homosexual" (as moronic as that designation is) is irrelevant.
    Ya know for someone claiming I'm vulnerable to propaganda, you seem well adept at accepting sources that flat out lie. Well, lets do this then shall we. Show me an ad that specifically states that churches will lose their tax exemption status, or is it more likely that the ads said that churches could lose their tax exempt status/ It's a small word and easily left out when adopting the opinion of others, but it makes a big difference when stating something is a lie, or potentially true.


    Tim-
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Complete and utter bull ****
    Did you google? I'm guessing not.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    You're moving the goal posts now. No one said grade school kids were being shown how to fist another boy,
    Actually you're moving the goalposts. I've never said anything about fisting. Love the blatant hypocrisy though. All I said is that sex ed is and has always been required to be age appropriate, and that prop 8 has nothing to do with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    BUT, they are being taught homosexual normalcy WHICH is a matter of opinion with no shred of scientific fact.
    To the extent that that's true at all, what on earth does it have to do with prop 8? Did the passage of prop 8 impact that at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Now, I'm sure you'll say that peer reviewed studies from this psychological associate vs. that psychological association are facts, but can we at least agree that many people do NOT assign the same level of scientific discipline to the social sciences, as they do to the more commonly accepted hard sciences that rely on repeatable and unequivocal data?
    Sure, so long as you'll agree that this is entirely irrelevant to any argument I've made.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    It hasn't yet, but it is completely rational to expect it to happen.
    No, it's really really not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    All it takes is one legal challenge, and precedent supports government requiring certain thresholds to continue tax exemption status.
    Setting aside for the moment that you're very, very wrong about that, you've as much as admitted my point. If it takes one legal challenge, than it is still not true that failing to pass prop 8 resulted in churches losing their tax exempt status or being required to marry gay people. That was an outright lie, and you've just basically demonstrated as much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Currently the climate, even in California, does not and probably wouldn't support taking away churches right to marry whomever they choose, and whether that should be a requirement to receive tax exemption, but it damn well could easily go the other way, and YOU should know it.
    Not without a constitutional amendment it couldn't. And you should know that, if you're going to comment on this subject.

  5. #255
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Did you google? I'm guessing not.


    Tim-
    No need. Your claims are complete and utter bull ****. Sorry.

    The "little black book" was about providing STD information to kids and the wedding you are referencing forced no child to attend the wedding. It was THEIR TEACHER's Wedding...and no one was required to attend. Just bull **** and scare tactics....nothing more.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Did you google? I'm guessing not.


    Tim-
    No kid was forced to attend a gay wedding and in fact the parents could opt out of it. Yet another lie from the anti-ssm crowd.

    As for losing tax exempt status churches like the Roman Catholic Church retain the right to marry whom they want to without losing tax exempt status.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Ya know for someone claiming I'm vulnerable to propaganda, you seem well adept at accepting sources that flat out lie. Well, lets do this then shall we. Show me an ad that specifically states that churches will lose their tax exemption status, or is it more likely that the ads said that churches could lose their tax exempt status/ It's a small word and easily left out when adopting the opinion of others, but it makes a big difference when stating something is a lie, or potentially true.
    The notion that churches could lose their tax exempt status as a result of prop 8 not passing is a lie. You're now demonstrating a very poor understanding of the law.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    There is equal rights, the people in states that voted and support SSM bans have every right to do so. SSM is not this over-hyped "equal rights" mantra that many want to push. It's a social issue that redefines legal marriage that people can support or not support and have those beliefs upheld in law.
    Easy for you to say, when you're not the one being denied rights.
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    No, what I'm fine with is people voting and having their beliefs put into law on social issues. I view it as tyranny to override that process because a minority didn't get their way in some states.
    So Brown v Board is tyranny?
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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I do care about freedom and liberty, that's why I respect the rights of those who disagree with me and recognize the issue as a social issue that, those who disagree with me on, can have their votes heard and put into legal action. People are free to vote on issues, they have the liberty to believe what they want and have the democratic process change laws. Forcing same sex marriage is not a constitutional right, the default definition is that marriage is between a man and woman. The law has to change to accommodate for same sex marriages and have the term of "marriage" be redefined. It's a social issue discussing changing a legal definition, and on such a change people can have their voices heard and their votes cast like with other issues.
    Like Jim Crow laws were just "social issues"? Like inter-racial marriage defied the societal notion of marriage 40 years ago, and instead of letting people get on with their lives without government intervention, we should have let other people decided their future(or lack thereof) by putting it up to a vote? Which would never have passed back then, and still wouldn't pass even in some states today.

    Yeah, sounds like freedom alright.
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