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Thread: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    That was pretty weak actually. What did the people vote on? Are you saying they were too stupid to read the ballot and understand it? They knew what they were voting on.
    I'm pointing out the obvious fact that some people (notably undecideds) are swayed by fearmongering and lies.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    The post to which I was responding was not looking for my opinion, so that's a pretty weird thing to bring up.



    Then you're not reading very closely. In any case, here's a more detailed overview:

    2: The Yes on 8 Ads That Worked - The Prop 8 Report
    Bro, again, you're citing opinion or interpretations of events, NOT facts. You've posted three linked sources for your position and all three are from rabid pro homosexual sites. I mean I could do the same thing I suppose but I'm sure that a few of you would cry foul at my conservative sources so I say to myself why bother? Why not just state your position, argue the merits of it and then agree to disagree?

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Homosexual normalcy IS being taught to grade school kids, and we can decide for ourselves whether that is a big deal or not, secondly, it is fully rational to extend to future consequences a time where freedom of religion will still be constitutional, BUT, in order to have exempt status, YOU (as in the church) will need to follow the law of the state via discrimination. It's an end around the constitution for organizations that oppose SSM, BUT still not completely out of the realm of possibility.
    1) Nobody is taught sex ed in grade schools. Sex ed is, and always has been required to be age appropriate. Prop 8 had and has literally nothing to do with that. Thanks for being living proof that people believe the lies you denied existed.

    2) The failure of prop 8 has not changed anything with respect to churches' rights to marry whomever they please. Again, thanks for demonstrating that you've bought into the bull**** that you deny exists.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Wrong. I have no issue with funding. What I have an issue with is complete and utter lies and deceit. The Mormon church should be ashamed of lies and fraud that they perpetrated during this campaign. Sorry...thats just the plain and simple fact.
    And as I am having this conversation with the other poster, why not point out the lies the proponents of Prop 8 spewed? Please be specific.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    And as I am having this conversation with the other poster, why not point out the lies the proponents of Prop 8 spewed? Please be specific.

    Tim-
    I already have.

    They made false claims that churches would be forced to marry gays
    They made false claims that school children would be forced to attend gay weddings
    They made false claims that churches would lose their tax exempt status
    They made false claims that prop 8 would require DCFS to place children in gay homes (The reality was that gay couples were already able to adopt...but they saw the need to perpetrate a fraud in any event).

    There are more...but you should be able to recognize the pattern.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Bro, again, you're citing opinion or interpretations of events, NOT facts. You've posted three linked sources for your position and all three are from rabid pro homosexual sites. I mean I could do the same thing I suppose but I'm sure that a few of you would cry foul at my conservative sources so I say to myself why bother? Why not just state your position, argue the merits of it and then agree to disagree?
    I have stated my position. Do you not understand that you've been responding to a series of posts asking for sources? Perhaps you should read for context before commenting on an ongoing thread. Incidentally, you're obviously not reading my sources very closely, because they discuss exactly what I'm claiming they do:

    The fact that proponents of prop 8 produced lots of ads that flat out lied about what prop 8 did. Do you deny either that such ads existed, or that they were factually inaccurate? If not, whether or not they're "rabidly pro homosexual" (as moronic as that designation is) is irrelevant.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits - First Read

    this is why the fall of DOMA will aid in getting equal rights nationalized.
    All its going to take now is some court cases here and there to pave the way.

    SO many scenarios can now push the issues and shine light on the fact this is inequality.

    The process will now be faster and soon all states will have to end their discrimination.
    State courts do not have jurisdiction over federal benefits and the SCOTUS has already allowed states that have them to keep their bans thereby boxing out the federal courts

    Like I said the day the decisions came down, really more of a Pyrrhic victory for the left.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    1) Nobody is taught sex ed in grade schools. Sex ed is, and always has been required to be age appropriate. Prop 8 had and has literally nothing to do with that. Thanks for being living proof that people believe the lies you denied existed.
    You're moving the goal posts now. No one said grade school kids were being shown how to fist another boy, BUT, they are being taught homosexual normalcy WHICH is a matter of opinion with no shred of scientific fact. Now, I'm sure you'll say that peer reviewed studies from this psychological associate vs. that psychological association are facts, but can we at least agree that many people do NOT assign the same level of scientific discipline to the social sciences, as they do to the more commonly accepted hard sciences that rely on repeatable and unequivocal data?

    2) The failure of prop 8 has not changed anything with respect to churches' rights to marry whomever they please. Again, thanks for demonstrating that you've bought into the bull**** that you deny exists.
    It hasn't yet, but it is completely rational to expect it to happen. All it takes is one legal challenge, and precedent supports government requiring certain thresholds to continue tax exemption status. Currently the climate, even in California, does not and probably wouldn't support taking away churches right to marry whomever they choose, and whether that should be a requirement to receive tax exemption, but it damn well could easily go the other way, and YOU should know it.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I already have.

    They made false claims that churches would be forced to marry gays
    They made false claims that school children would be forced to attend gay weddings
    They made false claims that churches would lose their tax exempt status
    They made false claims that prop 8 would require DCFS to place children in gay homes (The reality was that gay couples were already able to adopt...but they saw the need to perpetrate a fraud in any event).

    There are more...but you should be able to recognize the pattern.
    All of those things except tax exemption HAVE already happened in states that allow SSM. I know of a few examples just in MA alone. Do some research, try googling the "little black book", and teacher takes kids to gay wedding.. You'll see that your websites claiming they are lies are actually lying to you both.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Kind of like the far right evangelicals on ssm, eh?
    Not at all. Kind of like the pinko left on SSM. Anyone that doesn't agree with their agenda is a bigot and they go all spoiled brat on you, stomping their feet and waving their fists as they stick out their lower lip on their tear stained face and shriek "you're just a mean hater!". It's comical to witness this from what are supposed to be adults.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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