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Thread: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I didn't say that marriage is concrete. I said that it is a construct of black letter law. Just because "law" is abstract doesn't mean that it is whatever you want it to be. Legally, a "person" is a legal concept. So is "marriage". Both would have physical characteristics, though... for person, it would have to be human. For marriage, it would have to be a man and a woman. The legal definition may change but as long as the legal definition of person starts with "human" as it's foundation, your cocker spaniel can't be a person. And as long as marriage is defined as a man and a woman, your two best girlfriends can't be married to each other.
    And those laws are subject to restrictions of the US Constitution. Including restrictions placed on marriage.

    But marriage is a concept. There are no actual physical characteristics of marriage itself. People enter into marriage, they are not actually part of what marriage is.

    Marriage does not have to be between a man and a woman only. That is a restriction on legal marriage, not marriage itself. I can prove that with the definition of marriage.

    1
    a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage

    From the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Marriage - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    The legal restriction of marriage being "a man and woman only" will change because it is not involved in what marriage actually is, so therefore maintaining that restriction does not further any legitimate state interest.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    For one, any tax benefits would affect my tax dollars and they way my government does business.
    Um... how, exactly would that happen?

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Why are you so adamant in codifying your definition via the State.
    Um, it was already definition by the state.....
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Self defense is how the laws of self defense function, too. The fact that there are certain characteristics that make it self defense doesn't equate to some unfair restriction against being able to call it self defense to shoot someone in the head because you don't like them. Marriage is defined by the law. Where it is one man and one woman (most of the world where sanity still rules), that's what it is and those physical characteristics are defining characteristics. You don't have to like reality but acknowledging it would be a healthy thing for you to do.
    Your analogies are horrible.

    The laws of self defense actually involve more than you believe. You can use most "self defense" laws if you are truly defending another person from harm.

    Marriage is defined by how the laws involving marriage work, not on who is allowed to enter into marriage. Again, circular logic is not logical.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    5 Justices on the Supreme Court say that you are wrong. Good luck tilting that balance anytime soon.
    The differences between Supreme Court Justices and the Ayatollahs is diminishing by the moment and may already have vanished. Have fun celebrating that.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Already have.
    David...I know, without you stating it again, you have derived at such a prejudice...from your biblical and religious beliefs...regarding the sexual acts between two alike sexes.

    But how can you stand in judgment of people whom you have zero relationship with...or don't personally witness their sexual experiences...or see any evidence that their sexual orientation directly impacts the 96% of the population, which appears to be heterosexual?

    Sexual orientation isn't contagious.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Um, it was already definition by the state.....
    No it wasn't. Marriage is defined in how the laws around marriage itself work, not on who may enter into marriage. Who is allowed to legally be recognized as married involves restrictions on entering into marriage, not what marriage actually is.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Why are you so adamant on redefining marriage? You can't just change word meanings at will. It doesn't work that way. I believe in the sanctitiy of marriage, yes. Gays do not fit into that mold, yes. Doesn't mean you can redefine marriage and it be ok.
    We can make the word mean whatever we want legally, no one has sole authority over what is and is not marriage.

    Hell we redefined marriage to allow interracial marriage just 4 decades ago, so yes it is possible to do so. And the various churches, Catholic, and the various protestant churches, Orthadox, Coptic, etc have defined marriage in their own way and have changed their definition at times.

    Don't tell me that you can't refine marriage because I will find a dozen different definitions of marriage throughout history.

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Um, it was already definition by the state.....
    And you want to keep it that way, why?

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    re: After DOMA, gay couples still would not receive many federal benefits. [W:345]

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Sexual orientation isn't contagious.
    I don't know... A gay guy sneezed on me once and I was a little gay for about a week.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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