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Thread: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    The South-west USA is warmer than it was. The fire "season" is two months longer now than it was thirty years ago. On top of that, Arizona's population has risen 25% in the last ten years alone. The risk is higher, and more people are exposed to it too. RIP the fire crew.
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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The South-west USA is warmer than it was. The fire "season" is two months longer now than it was thirty years ago. On top of that, Arizona's population has risen 25% in the last ten years alone. The risk is higher, and more people are exposed to it too. RIP the fire crew.
    South-West warmer? It's a desert. It's always been semi-arid (mountains) to arid climate.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    South-West warmer? It's a desert. It's always been semi-arid (mountains) to arid climate.
    Just because tit was warm to start with doesn't mean it can't be warmer. Two extra months of raised fire risk indicates prolonged high temperatures in an already high-temperature area. Are there a lot of heavily wooded (see sawyerlogging's post) desert areas?
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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    I just read that there were 50 mph winds when these firefighters were in the field. This sounds incredible. When is it too dangerous??

    Portable shelters couldn't save 19 members of elite hotshots firefighting crew killed in Arizona blaze | Fox News
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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Just because tit was warm to start with doesn't mean it can't be warmer. Two extra months of raised fire risk indicates prolonged high temperatures in an already high-temperature area. Are there a lot of heavily wooded (see sawyerlogging's post) desert areas?
    Never said that. Its a desert region. Temps in this area AVG.. 100 plus during this time of the year. Temps today were only 5 degrees over it's historical avg. The trees in the area are Pine Trees that adapted to the region with it's typical rain fall between 10 to 15 inches a year. It's not heavily wooded area (that's a subjective statement) like you are imagining. It's not like Dalby Forest or Michaux State Forest (where I grew up).
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    These men, in this situation, followed protocol to the letter. They took no more risks than what was expected of them when they took the job. Fires are unpredictable and this one was no different. They knew that, but went out to do their job, which is what they trained to do. Many had families and people to go home to. The implication of grand-standing is disgusting.
    I never said they didn't and they weren't caught off guard. I am just not disputing that some times some tend to think they are bad ass and make mistakes.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Every time I read about the wildfires in California (as an example), I think to myself, "Why on EARTH would people build homes in these areas?" I guess that's what I'm getting at. It's hard for me to believe that, with all the technology out there, we don't have a better way to put out fires than putting men in harm's way to dig/excavate firebreaks. One would think there's a better way.

    And I agree with you about the wind change: firefighters' worst enemy.
    I could also carry that philosophy out to include people who build homes/towns along rivers, in floodplains, in areas prone to hurricanes or tornados... etc.

    Natural/man-made disasters happen in just about every place around this country. If Californians didn't build homes in places where wild grass and trees grow, there would be no people in California. The central valley is completely covered in wild grass and scrub, as is the coast, the deserts covered in flammable shrubs, the mountains are covered with trees.

    Don't mean to leap at you, Maggie, but I hear this all the damned time when California has a disastrous fire... most of which occur in cement, asphalt covered suburbs like the Oakland Hills... but when tornadoes flatten Oklahoma, when floods cover St. Louis, when hurricanes flatten the Gulf coast, the east coast or Florida, it's all "oh those poor people, what a tragedy!" When California has wildfires or earthquakes, it's all "what do they expect when they live over a fault zone and build homes near flammable stuff, like grass and trees."

    This is a terrible tragedy, and the people living in and around Prescott should not feel that their town or homes are to blame simply because they exist.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 07-03-13 at 12:25 AM.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I could also carry that philosophy out to include people who build homes/towns along rivers, in floodplains, in areas prone to hurricanes or tornados... etc.

    Natural/man-made disasters happen in just about every place around this country. In Californians didn't build homes in places where wild grass and trees grow, there would be no people in California. The valley is completely covered in wild grass and scrub, the deserts covered in flammable shrubs, the mountains are covered with trees.

    Don't mean to leap at you, Maggie, but I hear this all the damned time when California has a disastrous fire... most of which occur in cement, asphalt covered suburbs like the Oakland Hills... but when tornadoes flatten Oklahoma, when floods cover St. Louis, when hurricanes flatten the Gulf coast, the east coast or Florida, it's all "oh those poor people, what a tragedy!" When California has wildfires or earthquakes, it's all "what do they expect when they live over a fault zone and build homes near flammable stuff, like grass and trees."

    This is a terrible tragedy, and the fact that there are people living in and around Prescott should not feel that their town or homes are to blame because they exist.
    Takes a Californian to set the record straight. That makes sense, DiAnna. Thanks for straightening me out.
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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    South-West warmer? It's a desert. It's always been semi-arid (mountains) to arid climate.
    Not all is desert. Actually States like AZ and NM for example have very diverse terrain and ecosystems. It ranges from desert to conifer forests.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by mike2810 View Post
    Not all is desert. Actually States like AZ and NM for example have very diverse terrain and ecosystems. It ranges from desert to conifer forests.
    By definition, Arizona and most of New Mexico are deserts or Steppe (semi-arid) (which is basically a desert but has greenery). Phoenix area is a desert, so is Prescott. Peeples Valley (right by Yarnell) is a desert area. Mount Union (and the mountain ranges that separate Flagstaff from Prescott and Phoenix) are a Steepe.

    Just because you have pine trees doesn't make it non-desert. 95% of Arizona gets less then 20 inches of rain fall a year. Only places that records more then 20 inches are the mountain ranges. Every region of AZ from April to July goes through a dry season and then a monsoon seasons.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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