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Thread: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Hope the anti logging enviro nuts are happy.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Hope the anti logging enviro nuts are happy.
    I hope this tragedy causes firefighter planners to rethink their strategy. As I understand it, these men were trying to save some homes. Empty homes. One would think that, with all of the technology out there today, firestops wouldn't even take a human presence. Saving homes built in wildfire danger areas? Let them burn. They have insurance.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Names of the fallen:

    Andrew Ashcraft, age 29
    Kevin Woyjeck, age 21
    Anthony Rose, age 23
    Eric Marsh, age 43
    Christopher MacKenzie, age 30
    Robert Caldwell, age 23
    Clayton Whitted, age 28
    Scott Norris, age 28
    Dustin Deford, 24
    Sean Misner, age 26
    Garret Zuppiger, age 27
    Travis Carter, age 31
    Grant McKee, age 21
    Travis Turbyfill, age 27
    Jesse Steed, age 36
    Wade Parker, age 22
    Joe Thurston, age 32
    William Warneke, age 25
    John Percin, age 24

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I hope this tragedy causes firefighter planners to rethink their strategy. As I understand it, these men were trying to save some homes. Empty homes. One would think that, with all of the technology out there today, firestops wouldn't even take a human presence. Saving homes built in wildfire danger areas? Let them burn. They have insurance.
    I had not heard they were trying to save homes, what a waste.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I hope this tragedy causes firefighter planners to rethink their strategy. As I understand it, these men were trying to save some homes. Empty homes. One would think that, with all of the technology out there today, firestops wouldn't even take a human presence. Saving homes built in wildfire danger areas? Let them burn. They have insurance.
    I agree with letting empty structures burn rather than risk the lives of the fighters. The down side to that is people will not be able to get fire insurance if that becomes part of the standard protocol.

    Also, keep in mind this event had nothing to do with their strategy, the wind changed direction on them which can (and does) happen quite frequently.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    I agree with letting empty structures burn rather than risk the lives of the fighters. The down side to that is people will not be able to get fire insurance if that becomes part of the standard protocol.

    Also, keep in mind this event had nothing to do with their strategy, the wind changed direction on them which can (and does) happen quite frequently.
    Every time I read about the wildfires in California (as an example), I think to myself, "Why on EARTH would people build homes in these areas?" I guess that's what I'm getting at. It's hard for me to believe that, with all the technology out there, we don't have a better way to put out fires than putting men in harm's way to dig/excavate firebreaks. One would think there's a better way.

    And I agree with you about the wind change: firefighters' worst enemy.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Every time I read about the wildfires in California (as an example), I think to myself, "Why on EARTH would people build homes in these areas?" I guess that's what I'm getting at. It's hard for me to believe that, with all the technology out there, we don't have a better way to put out fires than putting men in harm's way to dig/excavate firebreaks. One would think there's a better way.

    And I agree with you about the wind change: firefighters' worst enemy.
    People build homes in these areas cause they are secluded and it's a beautiful area. Doesn't matter if it's California or Maine. Technology for firefighting, be it a home or wild fires has been the same for centuries. It's really never changed. Water, Water, Water.. or let it burn out. You dig break lines because putting out a fire that is spreading is impossible. Without the break lines you can't do air drops of water or some flame retardant. But even then putting out with water isn't the best for all. Letting the fire burn out is the best case for all. It'll make sure the risk of a fire in that area is practically 0% for the next 10 years or so. It'll allow regrowth as some of the chemicals used in flame retardant prevent growth.

    The same is done during home fires.. in the suburbs.. if no life is threaten, you put water on the fire but you put in on to prevent the spread. So more often then not they are putting more water on the homes near by to keep them cool and wet so they don't burn.
    Last edited by austrianecon; 07-02-13 at 03:11 PM.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    People build homes in these areas cause they are secluded and it's a beautiful area. Doesn't matter if it's California or Maine. Technology for firefighting, be it a home or wild fires has been the same for centuries. It's really never changed. You dig break lines because putting out a fire that is spreading is impossible. Without the break lines you can't do air drops of water or some flame retardant. But even then putting out with water isn't the best for all. Letting the fire burn out is the best case for all. It'll make sure the risk of a fire in that area is practically 0% for the next 10 years or so. It'll allow regrowth as some of the chemicals used in flame retardant prevent growth.
    Heat, Oxygen Fuel.


    Once fire breaks out, there is not much you can do about #1 & 2.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Heat, Oxygen Fuel.


    Once fire breaks out, there is not much you can do about #1 & 2.
    Seriously? The point in fighting fires is to remove the fuel of it which brings down the heat. You can't change Oxygen. You can only change heat and fuel.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    This tribute song to a previous firejumper disaster comes to mind.

    Cold Missouri Waters


    My prayers are with the families.

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