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Thread: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    I'd be more inclined to link it to climate change.
    wow... are you for real?

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    It was likely me, as I don't believe certification for MOST jobs should be required. You either know the stuff, or you don't. Where or how I came across the know how is irrelevant. Does it matter if a fire fighter had some form of formal training at an accredited school for such, or the son of a fire fighter learned everything from his dad? What matters is what the person knows, and accreditation is absolutely no measure of this. If you want to pursue this discussion, make a new thread.
    Nah, I need to debate this again, just found it funny.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    wow... are you for real?
    It's obviously much more likely than illegals being behind a lightning-strike fire.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    So an extra degree, and things just spontaneously combust?
    You do know that an "extra degree" added to the global average can be quite catastrophic. No?

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    This was a horrific tragedy and a horrific way for those brave firefighters to die. I was sick to my stomach when I heard what had happened, and how many had been lost. My deepest sympathies to their friends, families and the citizens of Arizona on this terrible, terrible loss.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    It's not an insult whatsoever, just a comment and one that should be explored. That many getting trapped is not a normal event in any sense. Clearly, someone made a bad decision and in that more towards success than safety. The question is "why?"

    An analogy would be "The Crocodile Hunter" who appears to have come to believe he is just too tough to die. MOST people with a stingray spike in his chest would not do the he-man thing and just rip it out to show he's tough. Another example is someone gets some degree in martial arts and then decides he's tough - leading to some street fighter beating the crap of him. I saw that happen many times. Publicly declaring someone to be great can lead to taking greater risks than otherwise would.

    Fame of being skilled and tough becoming part of a person's self perception can be dangerous. The publicity may have lead someone in the decision process to error towards getting the job done, rather than safety. Clearly that error was made. The question is "why?"

    There is nothing insulting in such a comment. What would seem insulting it is gratuitously lament their deaths and then everything just goes on without anyone bothering to ask how the hell did this happen? Who screwed up and why?" Psychology may play a part in that.
    I spent 30+ years in wildland fire. Spent some years on a hotshot crew when I first started. I can tell you that in extreme fire conditions, an unexpected shift of high winds can cause the fire to blow up at a rate most cannot comprehend. I also have been involved in fire entrapment and fatality investigations.

    There is an ongoing investigation on what happened. If you would do any research you would know that such tragic events are investigated, reports, books, etc are written to try and learn at teach what happened. Search South Canyon, Mann Gulch, etc.
    Investigation look at everything from command and control, weather. Firefighters take their jobs seriously.

    So please if you want to continue with this line of thought do some self education first.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    It's obviously much more likely than illegals being behind a lightning-strike fire.
    oh... so lighting strikes in the AZ desert are a new thing? geez I really don't believe this...!!! next thing we'll hear from the flat earthers....

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    oh... so lighting strikes in the AZ desert are a new thing? geez I really don't believe this...!!! next thing we'll hear from the flat earthers....
    Huh? i said no such thing. My original comment was simply a retort to the argument that illegals set it as a distraction.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Huh? i said no such thing. My original comment was simply a retort to the argument that illegals set it as a distraction.
    Please accept my apology. I am very upset with some of the things said in this thread, as this tragedy has hit close to home. I shall be vigilant and read more closely, rather than shoot from the hip. Again, my apologies.

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    Re: 19 firefighters killed in Arizona wildfire were part of elite Hotshot crew

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodman909 View Post
    Please accept my apology. I am very upset with some of the things said in this thread, as this tragedy has hit close to home. I shall be vigilant and read more closely, rather than shoot from the hip. Again, my apologies.
    No worries. And, my condolences regarding any personal loss you may have experienced.

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