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To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

My beliefs in what God wants are no more "invented" than what you or anyone else believes God wants.

Personally..I think Gays should invent a church..with gay priests or gay ministers..re-write the bible..

And get married within the confines of their own sins..
 
Personally..I think Gays should invent a church..with gay priests or gay ministers..re-write the bible..

And get married within the confines of their own sins..

You don't get exclusive belief in Jesus as the son of God just because you are straight. You don't get exclusive belief in the Bible just because you are straight. There are plenty of things that plenty of denominations of Christianity do not believe in the Bible. Many beliefs about the Bible have changed. Your beliefs on what the proper translation of the Bible is no more deserving of the moniker "Christianity" than any other group's.
 
Personally..I think Gays should invent a church..with gay priests or gay ministers..re-write the bible..

And get married within the confines of their own sins..

So when did God put you in charge of judging others? Do you think you are god now?
 
And under laws that protect unfair treatment based on sexuality, if it could be shown that sexuality was considered in who got hired, fired, or promotions, then there could easily be a legitimate case against such a company.

My point was that, right now, from the way it seems, sexuality considerations in regards to hiring, firing, and promotions tends to favor heterosexuality, not homosexuality, if it favors any sexuality. This may not be the case in certain companies, but in general, it is true.

You are too reasonable Rogue. :) You are probably quite right actually on this point. And fair to boot.

The one thing I would call out is that many liberals seem to tend not to worry about the wrongs done by the gays in the above scenario. They see it as evil balancing evil, at least the few I have discussed this with. I've seen it across various topics. The means seems to justify the end in their eyes.
You can see it in the way we deal with racial equality in our society. "You did it to us, now it's our turn" isn't a real progression.

Again, I respect your rationality.
 
My beliefs in what God wants are no more "invented" than what you or anyone else believes God wants.

At the risk of stating the obvious, this is a relative statement. The fact remains that the Truth may more may not lie within your conventions.
 
Many beliefs about the Bible have changed. .

Really??

So we have a pink bible now??

And that would be the gospel according to Saint Sasha?
 
So when did God put you in charge of judging others? Do you think you are god now?

No..not at all..just having a theological conversation with people who cannot deny..
 
You are too reasonable Rogue. :) You are probably quite right actually on this point. And fair to boot.

The one thing I would call out is that many liberals seem to tend not to worry about the wrongs done by the gays in the above scenario. They see it as evil balancing evil, at least the few I have discussed this with. I've seen it across various topics. The means seems to justify the end in their eyes.
You can see it in the way we deal with racial equality in our society. "You did it to us, now it's our turn" isn't a real progression.

Again, I respect your rationality.

There are absolutely some who do, and that is wrong. It should be fair and laws should apply equally to everyone, not just groups who have been oppressed or done wrong too.
 
Um, no, that was the difference I was highlighting by contrasting your religious beliefs against the concepts of individual secular rights. It is not a matter of religion vs atheism. Secular is not atheistic.

I do not believe there is such a thing as secular rights. It implies the ability to divorce our understanding of good from God, the source.
 
Really??

So we have a pink bible now??

And that would be the gospel according to Saint Sasha?

There is a Bible that is interpreted many different ways, by many different denominations of Christianity, about 41000 in fact, and in fact many different Christians within those denominations have different interpretations of the Bible.
 
At the risk of stating the obvious, this is a relative statement. The fact remains that the Truth may more may not lie within your conventions.

All beliefs are personal, even if they are shared by groups. Which makes all beliefs "relative".

The truth is not known truly by anyone on Earth, at least not in regards to a deity or afterlife. Many believe they know, but they cannot actually know.
 
What is "Progress" ?
What you describe as a battle for progress through history between Progressives and Conservatives seems to me to be simply the Truth finding it's equilibrium. The nature of things in this world is always to return to the Truth.
If you want to learn something from history, study the points in a given societies rise and fall and look where homosexuality becomes an accepted norm in the progress of that state.

Conservatives do tend to fight against Tyranny, while Progressives tend to promote Tyranny through the consolidation of power to the Government, although in most cases it may be inadvertent. But this is off topic.

Progress is ending slavery, the civil rights act, suffrage, ending discrimination against gays, all these conservatives have fought tooth and nail over continuing.

I do salute you proud conservative watch guard, for keeping on eye on the big bad gubmint that's always after us good folk, fight the good fight soldier!
 
I do not believe there is such a thing as secular rights. It implies the ability to divorce our understanding of good from God, the source.
Well that is one way to remove yourself from the discussion of civil law.

This was a discussion about same sex CIVIL marriage, but you and wolf want to turn it into a debate about religion.

You cannot have a RATIONAL debate involving religion, religion is not rational.
 
There is a Bible that is interpreted many different ways, by many different denominations of Christianity, about 41000 in fact, and in fact many different Christians within those denominations have different interpretations of the Bible.

Interesting..but old news..

Show me a quote from the current bible that says two men/women marrying is OK!!
 
Interesting..but old news..

Show me a quote from the current bible that says two men/women marrying is OK!!

Show me a quote from the current Bible that says a woman should be held as an equal to her husband, allowed to divorce him whenever she wants. Show me a quote from the Bible that says that two people of different races marrying is okay. Show me a quote from the Bible that says a woman should be allowed to claim rape if she says no to sex with her husband.
 
Show me a quote from the current Bible that says a woman should be held as an equal to her husband, allowed to divorce him whenever she wants. Show me a quote from the Bible that says that two people of different races marrying is okay. Show me a quote from the Bible that says a woman should be allowed to claim rape if she says no to sex with her husband.

That's a fair post..but we are talking about homosexuality...
 
That's a fair post..but we are talking about homosexuality...

Yes we are. But if you are discussing your problem with churches that accept homosexuality as not being a sin and still following the Bible, and how this is somehow against Christianity, then you need to show where other churches who claim Christianity but don't follow every single part of the Bible also shouldn't be called Christians, or as you said, should make their own Bible.

I guarantee this would go bad for you, since most denominations do not follow what the Bible says exactly due to differences in interpretations.
 
Progress is ending slavery, the civil rights act, suffrage, ending discrimination against gays, all these conservatives have fought tooth and nail over continuing.
I do salute you proud conservative watch guard, for keeping on eye on the big bad gubmint that's always after us good folk, fight the good fight soldier!

I would and do support all of the above, and I consider myself pretty darned conservative.

Hitler rose to power with the aid of Progressive Socialists. You are welcome.
 
Yes we are. But if you are discussing your problem with churches that accept homosexuality as not being a sin and still following the Bible, and how this is somehow against Christianity, then you need to show where other churches who claim Christianity but don't follow every single part of the Bible also shouldn't be called Christians, or as you said, should make their own Bible.

I guarantee this would go bad for you, since most denominations do not follow what the Bible says exactly due to differences in interpretations.

"Christian" is a personal thing, not a group thing. That is my opinion.
 
I would and do support all of the above, and I consider myself pretty darned conservative.

Hitler rose to power with the aid of Progressive Socialists. You are welcome.

Of course you support all of those things, after its all said and done it becomes the status quo.

But wait... didn't you say that not discriminating against homosexuals correlates with the end of empires? So you don't really support it do you?

Ahh yes, Hitler. Because the regime had the word socialist in its title you think that means they were some kind of libruls. Some of their economic policies had some left leaning characteristics, yes... however that isn't what they are remembered for now are they? If you look at the regime as a whole they are generally considered far right or as unique. Calling them progressives as some sort of "point" is just pathetic.
 
Of course you support all of those things, after its all said and done it becomes the status quo.

But wait... didn't you say that not discriminating against homosexuals correlates with the end of empires? So you don't really support it do you?

Ahh yes, Hitler. Because the regime had the word socialist in its title you think that means they were some kind of libruls. Some of their economic policies had some left leaning characteristics, yes... however that isn't what they are remembered for now are they? If you look at the regime as a whole they are generally considered far right or as unique. Calling them progressives as some sort of "point" is just pathetic.

He's right, you know.... they were "progressives". Granted, the progressives got duped by Hitler and came to regret it but it was with the progressives behind him that he came to power. After he got in power, of course, things went haywire, but you can't absolve progressive socialists entirely because they were the wind under Hitler's wings.
 
Thanks for your opinion.
Um, religion cannot be rationalized, it is based on belief. That is not a matter of opinion. You cannot prove god exists, you can only believe it.
 
Of course you support all of those things, after its all said and done it becomes the status quo.

But wait... didn't you say that not discriminating against homosexuals correlates with the end of empires? So you don't really support it do you?

Ahh yes, Hitler. Because the regime had the word socialist in its title you think that means they were some kind of libruls. Some of their economic policies had some left leaning characteristics, yes... however that isn't what they are remembered for now are they? If you look at the regime as a whole they are generally considered far right or as unique. Calling them progressives as some sort of "point" is just pathetic.

Answer to first part: No.

Answer to second part: What is far right? This? Nazi Party: "National Socialist German Workers' Party"
You may be right. Perhaps I don't understand it.
H.G. Wells, a strong Progressive said:
“I am asking for a Liberal Fascisti.” It was also to Communism that “we shall have to turn—we outsiders, that is, the young people with foresight for enlightened Nazis; I am proposing that you consider the formation for a greater Communist Party; a western response to Russia.”

Please, what am I missing?
 
I would and do support all of the above, and I consider myself pretty darned conservative.

Hitler rose to power with the aid of Progressive Socialists. You are welcome.
Oops....the Godwin law....you just lost the argument.
 
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