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Thread: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

  1. #471
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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i asked for a" further statement" from a something you know of, and you gave me links, i want the actual statement form a case or... something the USSC has said.

    sorry........ marriage cannot be a right currently, that's impossible.......because rights are never licensed at all. only privileges are licensed........if the USSC ever declares marriage a right USING THE 9TH AMENDMENT TO DO IT .....then all licenses by state would have to end.

    marriage is currently a privilege dispensed by states, and the states are placing a ban on SSM, the USSC would want to know why the state feels it need to ban SSM,...asking the question by banning SSM, what detrimental action to the state are you preventing by placing such a ban, since it is a privilege, which must be applied equality.
    1967: Loving v. Virginia

    "Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival. ... The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual, and cannot be infringed by the state." — Chief Justice Earl Warren, writing for the majority

    1978: Zablocki v. Redhail

    "Appellant asserts that two interests are served by the challenged statute: the 'permission to marry' proceeding furnishes an opportunity to counsel the applicant as to the necessity of fulfilling his prior support obligations; and the welfare of the 'out of custody' children is protected. We may accept for present purposes that these are legitimate and substantial interests, but, since the means selected by the State for achieving these interests unnecessarily impinge on the right to marry, the statute cannot be sustained." — Justice Thurgood Marshall, writing for the majority
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    The SCOTUS disagrees with you completely.

    States are and have been restricted in what laws they can make by the Constitution, since the 14th Amendment. Like it or not, the 14th Amendment and the Equal Protection Clause limited the power of the states, even in such things as marriage.
    the 14th states... equal treatment under the law by governments, this means rights and privileges, rights cannot be denied unless a crime is committed, privileges are given by the state, and in giving those privileges it must give them equity unless it can show that proving a privilege to someone or group would not be in the states interest.

    privileges can be freely given or licensed by the state depending on what the privilege is, if you are denied a license by the state, say a hair dresser.... then the state would have prove why you dont qualify for the license if taken to court.

    again..if marriage was a right....there would be no licensing of it.......rights and licenses are opposites and dont go together......privileges and licenses, go together...and it marriage was a right, all the person, would have to do in present the USSC court case showing the ruling, to a state court, and they could marry...however no such rights has been declared under the 9th amendment.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    1967: Loving v. Virginia

    "Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival. ... The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual, and cannot be infringed by the state." — Chief Justice Earl Warren, writing for the majority

    1978: Zablocki v. Redhail

    "Appellant asserts that two interests are served by the challenged statute: the 'permission to marry' proceeding furnishes an opportunity to counsel the applicant as to the necessity of fulfilling his prior support obligations; and the welfare of the 'out of custody' children is protected. We may accept for present purposes that these are legitimate and substantial interests, but, since the means selected by the State for achieving these interests unnecessarily impinge on the right to marry, the statute cannot be sustained." — Justice Thurgood Marshall, writing for the majority
    you can post that all you like,.........if you use the 14th amendment to our constitution,....those are not rights, they are civil privileges.........government cannot create an amendment and make rights, that goes against the founding principles of america......civil rights are ........ civil privileges.

    again rights are not licensed at all!

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you can post that all you like,.........if you use the 14th amendment to our constitution,....those are not rights, they are civil privileges.........government cannot create an amendment and make rights, that goes against the founding principles of america......civil rights are ........ civil privileges.

    again rights are not licensed at all!
    You will have to take up your philosophical differences with SCOTUS. Precedent clearly shows that they define it as a civil right. Whether you think marriage is a civil right or privilege because it is licensed by the state has no bearing on how SCOTUS and the federal government views it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    1967: Loving v. Virginia

    "Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival.
    That remark clearly indicates that he wasn't talking about the yet unthinkable oxymoron now thought of as homosexual "marriage" because it does nothing for our existence or survival.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That remark clearly indicates that he wasn't talking about the yet unthinkable oxymoron now thought of as homosexual "marriage" because it does nothing for our existence or survival.
    Neither does heterosexual marriage. People don't have to be married in order to reproduce.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That remark clearly indicates that he wasn't talking about the yet unthinkable oxymoron now thought of as homosexual "marriage" because it does nothing for our existence or survival.
    Why not? Same sex parents have kids through surrogates and in vitro. Whereas the technology did not exist back when Loving was decided, it certainly does now. If there had never been the invention of contraceptives to limit births or fertility treatments to allow those who normally could not have kids to have them, then you would have a point, but technology has made your talking point moot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    The Supreme Court wouldn't even have to do that. DOMA is the lynchpin in the legal argument for State bans on same-sex marriage. The purpose of Section 2 of DOMA was to create an exception to the Full Faith And Credit Clause of the Constitution so that other States could choose not to legally recognize same-sex marriage following the ruling of the Hawaii Supreme Court in Baehr v. Miike. Without DOMA, the States would be required to legally recognize same-sex marriages across State lines. The Supreme Court only needs to ask 1 question: Are same-sex marriages legally recognized in any of the 50 States? If so, Section 2 of DOMA and State same-sex marriage bans violate the Full Faith And Credit Clause and are therefore Unconstitutional.

    when the FFA clause was created, it was created for judgements on people, because they had dont something against the law, and ordered to do something, pay, of perform an act.

    by having the clause it prevent people who had those judgements from running away to another state to escape those judges, becuase in those days states were their own independent countries, it was not like it is today.

    second your missing this below

    Section. 1.

    Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws (DOMA)prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

    this states that congress by general law, can choose if states have to recognize other states public acts, records.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    You will have to take up your philosophical differences with SCOTUS. Precedent clearly shows that they define it as a civil right. Whether you think marriage is a civil right or privilege because it is licensed by the state has no bearing on how SCOTUS and the federal government views it.
    there are no civil rights in the constitution only rights and privileges, congress cannot create rights for the people, the USSC can only say something is a right falling under the 9th amendment, or congress create a privilege, and they can be given or taken away.

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    Re: To cheers, same-sex marriages resume in California [W:381]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    when the FFA clause was created, it was created for judgements on people, because they had dont something against the law, and ordered to do something, pay, of perform an act.
    What it was originally created for is of less importance than how it is applied today.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    this states that congress by general law, can choose if state have to recognize other states public acts, ,records.
    What Congress has said is:

    "Such Acts, records and judicial proceedings or copies thereof, so authenticated, shall have the same full faith and credit in every court within the United States and its Territories and Possessions as they have by law or usage in the courts of such State, Territory or Possession from which they are taken."

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