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Thread: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Wavier (as set out by Supreme Court): a voluntary and intentional relinquishment of a known right. Waiver can be explicit (express waiver) or implicit (implied waiver). An express waiver requires a writing or a statement of waiver. An implied waiver can occur simply by some action, where such action indicates one’s intention to waive the rights. The act for an implied waiver must unequivocally indicate the desire to waive one’s rights. Rosenthal v. New York Life Ins. Co., 99 F.2d 578 (8th Cir. 1938)

    "The record must show, or there must be an allegation and evidence which show, that an accused was offered counsel but intelligently and understandingly rejected the offer. Anything less is not a waiver."

    Carnley v. Cochran, 369 U.S. 506, 516 (1962)

    When she made a statement implicitly waived her right.
    It says nothing about unwaiving it. But that decision only works in that case. The courts do not make laws. They decide cases.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You can't say, under oath, that there has been no wrong doing, then invoke the 5th Amendment. There's a lie there, somewhere.
    Someone can be innocent and still not say anything. That's the whole point. Govt cant compel you to say anything, incriminating or otherwise.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Talk about a witch hunt. You obviously don't understand the 5th amendment. She was threatened with criminal prosecution. Of course she can deny the charges and refuse to answer questions from those House clowns. That in in no way indicates guilt unless you are in a Police State. This is America.
    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Someone can be innocent and still not say anything. That's the whole point. Govt cant compel you to say anything, incriminating or otherwise.
    when you plead the 5th it is all or nothing. the law is very clear on that. think about it. if you are allowed to pick and choose what you plead the 5th on a lawyer could be stopped cross examination witnesses. a attorney can call a witness have him or her give a statement answer questions and then not allow the opposing attorney cross examine that witness
    Last edited by trfjr; 06-30-13 at 10:44 AM.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I didn't read anything in the constitution about the 5th amendment being waived when someone in the government thinks you are lying.
    Theres nothing in the 5th Amendment that allows you to refuse to answer question, neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Theres nothing in the 5th Amendment that allows you to refuse to answer question, neither.
    You cannot make a statement to the court claiming your innocence, that you have done nothing wrong, and then plead the fifth, The second IRS employee to plead the fifth got it right and stayed silent, apart from his plead.

    Once she began speaking about the case in open court she then has to accept cross examination. She and her lawyers screwed up. The next IRS agent got it right and I expect the rest will as well.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by trfjr View Post
    when you plead the 5th it is all or nothing. the law is very clear on that. think about it. if you are allowed to pick and choose what you plead the 5th on a lawyer could be stopped cross examination witnesses. a attorney can call a witness have him or her give a statement answer questions and then not allow the opposing attorney cross examine that witness
    The law says absolutely nothing about all or nothing. But youre right about the rest, and Im ok with that.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You cannot make a statement to the court claiming your innocence, that you have done nothing wrong, and then plead the fifth, The second IRS employee to plead the fifth got it right and stayed silent, apart from his plead.

    Once she began speaking about the case in open court she then has to accept cross examination. She and her lawyers screwed up. The next IRS agent got it right and I expect the rest will as well.
    Its pretty clear, there is no power in the constitution that allows the govt to make you talk, in any situation.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The law says absolutely nothing about all or nothing. But youre right about the rest, and Im ok with that.
    so your alright to allow a witness to take the stand say what ever he or she wants lie through their teeth and never be challenged to prove they are not telling the truth

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Its pretty clear, there is no power in the constitution that allows the govt to make you talk, in any situation.
    No, the government cannot 'make her talk' but she can longer invoke the fifth because she has already testified. You cannot make statements in court, which she did, and then invoke the fifth. It's curious why the Democrats would want her to remain silent.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Talk about a witch hunt. You obviously don't understand the 5th amendment. She was threatened with criminal prosecution. Of course she can deny the charges and refuse to answer questions from those House clowns. That in in no way indicates guilt unless you are in a Police State. This is America.
    That!s true...in a court. She wasn't in court. She said, under oath that there had been no illegal or wrong actvity. Then, she invoked the 5th. She's lying about one, or the other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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