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Thread: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    Can a person take the stand and only answer questions from his or her lawyer or make a statement in a court of law without cross examination? You either do it all the way or you don't get that right.
    Again, show me where it says that in the fifth amendment.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Again, show me where it says that in the fifth amendment.
    It doesn't have to. If you talk, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You are advised of the right to remain silent and if you waive it, whatever you say is subject to be used against you and you may be cross-examined and your statements may be challenged. If you don't want to testify against yourself, then you need to come down with a very serious case of STFU. It is black-letter law.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Talk to a lawyer Deuce, you seem to be having trouble with that pesky part of remaining silent after invoking the 5th.
    Someone should be able to invoke the 5th, then answer a couple more questions they are willing to answer, and then refuse to answer any further question thus re-invoking the 5th. There shouldn't be some magical line that once I've crossed it, I can have a confession forced out of me. Silence should never, under any circumstances be treated as evidence of guilt because that's exactly one of the things the 5th amendment is trying to prevent. I know the courts don't treat it this way, what I'm saying is that the courts are ****ing stupid.

    But hey, you big government types don't see it that way. I understand.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Someone should be able to invoke the 5th, then answer a couple more questions they are willing to answer, and then refuse to answer any further question thus re-invoking the 5th. There shouldn't be some magical line that once I've crossed it, I can have a confession forced out of me. Silence should never, under any circumstances be treated as evidence of guilt because that's exactly one of the things the 5th amendment is trying to prevent. I know the courts don't treat it this way, what I'm saying is that the courts are ****ing stupid.

    But hey, you big government types don't see it that way. I understand.
    We may be able to find some areas of agreement. Would you also say she should have been fired and not simply placed on paid leave?
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    We may be able to find some areas of agreement. Would you also say she should have been fired and not simply placed on paid leave?
    I don't think the government should be in the habit of firing people who haven't been convicted of anything. edit: or not necessarily convicted of a crime, but rather not proven to have actually broken the rules or violated procedure or whatever the particular investigation is about. Innocent until proven guilty, and whatnot. We've even had a few recent examples, like Shirley Sherrod. Video footage was edited to make it appear as though she was saying something racist. Fired by the USDA. Then someone figures out the video was edited. Oops.

    Determine guilt via due process. Then punish. Changing the order isn't something I'm comfortable with.

    So don't fire them. But, someone under this sort of investigation... do you leave them in power? Because that's your option, let them keep doing their job or place them on leave.

    edit2: And before someone brings it up, keep in mind that I'm applying this logic to the government. The government doesn't have the same rights that I do, or that a private business does. If a private business wants to fire an employee because they were charged with a crime but not yet convicted, I think it's (sometimes) a bad move but it's their right.
    Last edited by Deuce; 06-29-13 at 06:45 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I don't think the government should be in the habit of firing people who haven't been convicted of anything. edit: or not necessarily convicted of a crime, but rather not proven to have actually broken the rules or violated procedure or whatever the particular investigation is about. Innocent until proven guilty, and whatnot. We've even had a few recent examples, like Shirley Sherrod. Video footage was edited to make it appear as though she was saying something racist. Fired by the USDA. Then someone figures out the video was edited. Oops.

    Determine guilt via due process. Then punish. Changing the order isn't something I'm comfortable with.

    So don't fire them. But, someone under this sort of investigation... do you leave them in power? Because that's your option, let them keep doing their job or place them on leave.
    An appropriate decision might have been suspension W/O pay, not with pay...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    An appropriate decision might have been suspension W/O pay, not with pay...
    Suspension without pay is a punishment, wouldn't you agree?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Suspension without pay is a punishment, wouldn't you agree?
    Yes, but that's not what occurred...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
    Quote Originally Posted by James D Hill View Post
    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    I doubt that they'll go after her, but who knows with these GOP clowns ... they want to be able to show something for all of their troubles ... turns out the IRS was looking at liberal organizations as well .... hmmmmmm ... it's about time the IRS cracks down on primarily political organizations pretending they're not -- left or right ....

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    Re: House says IRS official waived rights, contempt possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    It doesn't have to. If you talk, anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You are advised of the right to remain silent and if you waive it, whatever you say is subject to be used against you and you may be cross-examined and your statements may be challenged. If you don't want to testify against yourself, then you need to come down with a very serious case of STFU. It is black-letter law.
    Again, where in the 5th amendment does it say that once you waive it, you cant unwaive it. They can ask her all the questions they want. They cant compel her to answer, EVER. Of course, the US govt can then try and charge her, if they don't agree, then we can let the court decide. Congress is not a court.

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