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Thread: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority


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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    If "We care about the millions of Americans who lost their jobs to illegals and have received no justice and recompense of any kind." is the issue, how will passage or non-passage change anything?

    If you lost your job to an illegal, haven't you already lost the job? How will this bill change anything, one way or another?
    Lessens the chance you will ever be getting that job back or another one in the same field. It means the government saw you lost your job to an illegal and rewarded the illegal for doing so.

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    I know this is a serious issue for America and not an easy one to solve, but I have to tell you that if in Canada our government had allowed essentially the equivalent of 3.3% of our population to illegally enter our country, take up residence for years, basically become naturalized, and then basically demand equal Canadian status to people born here or who emigrated here legally, the people would be absolutely outraged and the government would fall.

    Canada is one of the most generous nations in the world and we open our country up to those who are suffering in other parts of the world through refugee relocation and we also open our borders to about 250,000 legal immigrants and short term laborers as well. But, as with most generous people, we hate having our generousity mistaken for us being rubes who can be easily scammed. If you try to skirt the process illegally, we want you gone, period.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it for stands. One Nation under God Indivisible With Liberty and Justice For ALL.
    That's right, the American citizens' pledge of allegiance, which citizens pledge.

    Justice for all citizens egregiously wronged by the 20 million trespassing and thieving illegals demands that this bill be killed and that the 20 million illegals be "encouraged" to self-deport ASAP.

    It is a complete injustice in America for illegals to steal from Americans.

    There is no justice to anyone for letting the illegals keep their ill-gotten gains at American citizen expense.

    Justice for American citizens means that Americans get their jobs, classrooms, living space, road space, trauma centers, etc back with recompense.

    Justice for illegals means that they get brought to criminal justice and deported.

    It really is that simple.

    Your post implies that there is some non-existent justice giving amnesty and legalization to illegals. But there is none. And, any attempt at justice for some, however wrong and misguided, can never come at the injustice expense of others, in this case at the injustice expense of millions of American citizens.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by azgreg View Post
    Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority



    Now we'll see Boehner pull a Reid and not bring it up for a vote.
    Hopefully they will send it to committee, amend it, bring it up in the house and then fail it. And soon, so we can get on with something more important, fiscal discipline.

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    I don't see how. Lets say you were a general laborer working for a construction company. You made $11 an hour. Jose sneaked across the border and your boss hired Jose for $6 an hour. Either you found another job or you went on welfare.

    So, for argument sake, lets say this bill doesn't pass. How does that change anything for you? Jose still has your job and you either solved your employment problem it one way or another.

    Now, lets say the bill passes and Jose has been "rewarded" with better legal status. Now, Jose will have to be paid $7.25 an hour instead of $6 (I think thats the minimum wage). How does this change anything for you? You still won't get $11 so hopefully you learned how to do something else.

    I don't have a political POV on this so lets just discuss the logic of it. I don't care if the bill passes or fails. I just want to understand WTF is actually going on.

    It seems that along with this bill, there is going to be better enforcement (at least I would hope this $40B would accomplish something) and thus presumable Jose's cousin Miguel can't cross the border (although I seriously doubt this border can stop a determined Miguel). So, isn't that sort of an improvement?

    Personally, I don't see how anything becomes better or worse. Unless we plan to arrest every Jose in the country and put a bullet in their head, I don't see how the job market improves for anybody. With or without the bill.

    Now, H1B, that's a different story. Americans are replaced by Indians simply because they work cheaper. So, yes, I can see a positive impact if we cut the H1B visa. Also, outsourcing is a real kick in the head to the American worker. Unfortunately, this bill won't affect any of that so why is there so much emotion about this?

    Thank you for your response.




    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Lessens the chance you will ever be getting that job back or another one in the same field. It means the government saw you lost your job to an illegal and rewarded the illegal for doing so.

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    If "We care about the millions of Americans who lost their jobs to illegals and have received no justice and recompense of any kind." is the issue, how will passage or non-passage change anything? If you lost your job to an illegal, haven't you already lost the job? How will this bill change anything, one way or another? I know you are very capable of intelligent analysis and expression. So, please don't rant at me, just try to explain what I asked. A respectful question seeking a respectful answer.
    Your question deserves a rant, as, based on your previous posts on the topic, you most certainly understand the ramifications of this bill, and thus your question is disengenuous argumentation.

    That you falsely purport not to get that by killing this legalization bill and following it up with getting the 20 million illegals to self-deport that will open up the jobs again for the Americans who had them stolen from them .. not to mention the classrooms, living space, road space, trauma centers, etc. .. is just ludicrous.

    If this bill passes, this amnesty and legalization bill, the 20 million thieving illegals get to keep their ill-gotten gains, a travesty of justice to Americans who might otherwise get their jobs back again, and you most certainly know it.

    If you are specifically referring to "they won't get those exact jobs back again and thus why not give the illegals amnesty", that's simply inane argumentation validation, obviously.

    Justice means that we don't pass amnesty bills so that criminals can keep their ill-gotten gains.

    Justice means that we bring the 20 million illegals to justice: encouraging them to self-deport by removing all but emergency life-saving service transactions from them.

    Thus returning their stolen items to America, so that the Americans who lost their jobs can get jobs back again.

    If someone breaks in and steals your television set, and then the police say, "well, we're going to give the criminal amnesty and he can keep your TV", your natural response will be outrage and "but if you catch the criminal and recover my TV, I get it back -- if you give him amnesty he gets to keep my TV set!".

    That you even ask the question about why not to pursue justice for all indicates that you're merely being disengenuous.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I don't see how. Lets say you were a general laborer working for a construction company. You made $11 an hour. Jose sneaked across the border and your boss hired Jose for $6 an hour. Either you found another job or you went on welfare.

    So, for argument sake, lets say this bill doesn't pass. How does that change anything for you? Jose still has your job and you either solved your employment problem it one way or another.

    Now, lets say the bill passes and Jose has been "rewarded" with better legal status. Now, Jose will have to be paid $7.25 an hour instead of $6 (I think thats the minimum wage). How does this change anything for you? You still won't get $11 so hopefully you learned how to do something else.

    I don't have a political POV on this so lets just discuss the logic of it. I don't care if the bill passes or fails. I just want to understand WTF is actually going on.

    It seems that along with this bill, there is going to be better enforcement (at least I would hope this $40B would accomplish something) and thus presumable Jose's cousin Miguel can't cross the border (although I seriously doubt this border can stop a determined Miguel). So, isn't that sort of an improvement?

    Personally, I don't see how anything becomes better or worse. Unless we plan to arrest every Jose in the country and put a bullet in their head, I don't see how the job market improves for anybody. With or without the bill.

    Now, H1B, that's a different story. Americans are replaced by Indians simply because they work cheaper. So, yes, I can see a positive impact if we cut the H1B visa. Also, outsourcing is a real kick in the head to the American worker. Unfortunately, this bill won't affect any of that so why is there so much emotion about this?

    Thank you for your response.
    Your questions is blatantly disengenuous and obviously so.

    Killing this bill kills amnesty and legalization. That's step one.

    Step two is then enforcing our existing laws against trespassing and stealing and "encouraging" the 20 million illegals to deport.

    That will open up the jobs they stole for Americans, obviously.

    Your irrational and purposefully disengenuous line is .. simply that.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Hopefully they will send it to committee, amend it, bring it up in the house and then fail it. And soon, so we can get on with something more important, fiscal discipline.
    Indeed, as if this bill passes, it will spell fiscal disaster by causing wage scales to plummet across the board.

    Then when people can't afford to buy things any more .. sales will go down .. people will get laid off .. .. and the catostrophic spiral begins.

    This amnesty and legalization bill is the most undisciplined fiscal injustice ever.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Senate Immigration Reform Bill Passes With Strong Majority

    Falsely purport. Disingenuous. Inane argumentation. So sesquipedalian yet so meaningless. I hoped for better from you.

    "Killing this legalization bill and following it up with getting the 20 million illegals to self-deport". When did that become likely? Either the bill passes or it doesn't. Other than in you little fantasy world, where does the change come from? The bill fails and suddenly your ingenius "denial of service" plan goes into effect? Or does it just mean that things continue as they are now? Where does the "justice" thing apply here?

    Never mind. Since you are only interesting in pontificating, not discussing, I withdraw my question.









    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your question deserves a rant, as, based on your previous posts on the topic, you most certainly understand the ramifications of this bill, and thus your question is disengenuous argumentation.

    That you falsely purport not to get that by killing this legalization bill and following it up with getting the 20 million illegals to self-deport that will open up the jobs again for the Americans who had them stolen from them .. not to mention the classrooms, living space, road space, trauma centers, etc. .. is just ludicrous.

    If this bill passes, this amnesty and legalization bill, the 20 million thieving illegals get to keep their ill-gotten gains, a travesty of justice to Americans who might otherwise get their jobs back again, and you most certainly know it.

    If you are specifically referring to "they won't get those exact jobs back again and thus why not give the illegals amnesty", that's simply inane argumentation validation, obviously.

    Justice means that we don't pass amnesty bills so that criminals can keep their ill-gotten gains.

    Justice means that we bring the 20 million illegals to justice: encouraging them to self-deport by removing all but emergency life-saving service transactions from them.

    Thus returning their stolen items to America, so that the Americans who lost their jobs can get jobs back again.

    If someone breaks in and steals your television set, and then the police say, "well, we're going to give the criminal amnesty and he can keep your TV", your natural response will be outrage and "but if you catch the criminal and recover my TV, I get it back -- if you give him amnesty he gets to keep my TV set!".

    That you even ask the question about why not to pursue justice for all indicates that you're merely being disengenuous.

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