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Thread: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    By signing a December 2011 memorandum instructing federal agencies to promote the human rights of gay people overseas, Obama publicly inserted himself into Africa's bitter debate about whether homosexuals have legitimate rights. Since then American diplomats have forcefully pressed for gay rights behind closed doors, especially in countries that criminalize homosexuality, say experts and advocates. Officials have also expanded outreach to local organizations promoting gay and lesbian rights, improved monitoring of anti-gay abuses and established an emergency fund for activists facing violence or harassment.

    But the public positioning has been discreet, with the U.S. government clearly wary of any backlash that could put local activists at risk.

    "Given that African societies tend to be very conservative, it's a difficult issue," Carter, the U.S. ambassador in Ivory Coast, told The Associated Press. "The question for us is, how do we advocate effectively and advance the human rights agenda for the LGBT community, or any other community that is in a difficult position? And sometimes the headlong assault isn't the way to do it."

    Obama's decision to champion a hugely unpopular cause — both with the December 2011 memorandum and his public endorsement of gay marriage last year — has prompted soul-searching among some of his African fans.

    But while some campaigners say Obama is uniquely positioned to change minds on gay rights in Africa, there is concern that strong public statements from the president would merely be giving ammunition to a hostile opposition that has long dismissed the push for gay rights as an example of Western powers imposing their values on Africa.....snip~


    Do you think Since Obamas decision in 2011 that we should be Forcefully bringing this to countries that have not decriminalized? Do you think Obama's flip-flopping helps in any of this? Now why isn't that working for Africans?

    Yes, I agree that we should be trying to actively change those laws. We should be putting pressure on them to change those inhumane laws. Why do you disagree?
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Yes, I agree that we should be trying to actively change those laws. We should be putting pressure on them to change those inhumane laws. Why do you disagree?
    I think we need to crawl before we walk with these Muslim peoples. Which means I would think women and children rights need to be worked on first and gains made there before they even can begin trying to talk about this change with those that do what this African Leader did. Many know how many times they have shown the entire world that they will not take the side of tolerance. While saying they aren't oppressing others. While allegedly giving right to others.

    And again.....how do you get round those Clerics who are influencing their people over anything we say? Especially when some of those Clerics aren't in Africa.

    To much pressure can lead to them out right killing gays. Now what will people do when they find they cannot influence them to accept such and they stick with that hard line. Is the Left willing to accept all those deaths that come out of it?

  3. #113
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I think we need to crawl before we walk with these Muslim peoples. Which means I would think women and children rights need to be worked on first and gains made there before they even can begin trying to talk about this change with those that do what this African Leader did. Many know how many times they have shown the entire world that they will not take the side of tolerance. While saying they aren't oppressing others. While allegedly giving right to others.

    And again.....how do you get round those Clerics who are influencing their people over anything we say? Especially when some of those Clerics aren't in Africa.

    To much pressure can lead to them out right killing gays. Now what will people do when they find they cannot influence them to accept such and they stick with that hard line. Is the Left willing to accept all those deaths that come out of it?
    Everyone should have equal rights, period. You are trying to twist this into something that you can attack Obama on, but what he did was good.
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    I think we need to crawl before we walk with these Muslim peoples. Which means I would think women and children rights need to be worked on first and gains made there before they even can begin trying to talk about this change with those that do what this African Leader did. Many know how many times they have shown the entire world that they will not take the side of tolerance. While saying they aren't oppressing others. While allegedly giving right to others.

    And again.....how do you get round those Clerics who are influencing their people over anything we say? Especially when some of those Clerics aren't in Africa.

    To much pressure can lead to them out right killing gays. Now what will people do when they find they cannot influence them to accept such and they stick with that hard line. Is the Left willing to accept all those deaths that come out of it?
    Hi MMC!

    I agree but these people are already killing Gays, stoning women, etc. I think they should be attacked on fronts and political correctness or any sensitivity issues should be ignored.

    As you've noticed many are supporting Obama on his remarks but when others say the same thing about Islamic dominated countries they will claim it's 'racist', or 'islmaophobic'. None of them will dare call Obama Islamophobic here, yet the sentiments are the same.

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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Hi MMC!

    I agree but these people are already killing Gays, stoning women, etc. I think they should be attacked on fronts and political correctness or any sensitivity issues should be ignored.

    As you've noticed many are supporting Obama on his remarks but when others say the same thing about Islamic dominated countries they will claim it's 'racist', or 'islmaophobic'. None of them will dare call Obama Islamophobic here, yet the sentiments are the same.
    Hiya Grant. Also they are questioning his flip flop. Then they recall his speech to the Muslim world. One hand he says he accept their traditions and culture their diversity and then on the other. A Universal Equality that they should accept.

    Even in their responses they are stating the hard line. Then 9 out of ten people are against Gay Rights. Inside these Countries. It's like our Politicians are just ignoring what they are saying.

    I think you see it what I saw with it as well.

  6. #116
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Pushing gay rights in Kenya for two years cost me a lot of political capital and even a bit of security, but many agreed with me and some may even have been swayed.

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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Pushing gay rights in Kenya for two years cost me a lot of political capital and even a bit of security, but many agreed with me and some may even have been swayed.
    Heya EF. Are they like the Rest of these African Countries, when it comes to Gay Rights?

    When in discussion did they ever agree that it was an acceptable Lifestyle? Were you still involved in Kenya? What did you think about Obama approving drones for Kenya?

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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya EF. Are they like the Rest of these African Countries, when it comes to Gay Rights?
    Kenya is a bit more developed than most African countries.

    When in discussion did they ever agree that it was an acceptable Lifestyle?
    Some more than others.

    Were you still involved in Kenya?
    ?

    What did you think about Obama approving drones for Kenya?
    Kenya is very happy to have drones. It's also happy to have other US equipment and training. I met a guy in the village who owned a store at the main market and was only in town rarely (his wife ran it most weeks), he was in the Kenyan army as an instructor and he'd been to jump school at Ft. Benning and worked with ranger tabbed Kenyan soldiers. I've seen kevlars on the news, humvees and apparently they get western help on evacs and field hospitals because they've only suffered first world casualty rates against Al Shabaab in Somalia.

    Even Somalians say to the US: "send your drones to kill Al Shabaab, but don't send soldiers".

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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Kenya is a bit more developed than most African countries.

    Some more than others.

    ?".
    Meaning were you still involved at Kenya at this time? Would you happen to know how the Women are treated in Kenya? Is like the same with these other Muslim African Countries?

  10. #120
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    Re: Obama Clashes with African Host over Gay Rights.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Meaning were you still involved at Kenya at this time? Would you happen to know how the Women are treated in Kenya? Is like the same with these other Muslim African Countries?
    I've been in the states for a year but I plan to return to Kenya to visit and eventually settle. Kenya is diverse, it depends where. Kenya is only majority Muslim on the coast and in the northeast arid land, most elsewhere is Christian of all varieties.

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