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Texas carries out its 500th execution since 1982

So I looked into how many innocent men have been put to death on my own because all the people saying this has happened have offered no evidence of their claims. All I found was this. A guy from the death penalty information center says if there was a retrial he would be found not guilty. This seems to be the closest thing there is to an innocent man being put to death. The guy even admits there is no evidence an innocent man has ever been put to death. Guess that ends this debate huh.

"If a new trial was somehow able to be conducted today, a jury would acquit DeLuna" said Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center, who read a draft of Liebman's report. "We don't have a perfect case where can agree that we have an innocent person who's been executed, but by weight of this investigation, I think we can say this is as close as a person is going to come."

Carlos DeLuna Execution: Texas Put To Death An Innocent Man, Columbia University Team Says

My experience has tended to be the same. People claim that innocent people have been executed, but I am not aware of any. The time period spent with death penalty convicts spans a pretty long period of time, and with DNA evidence, and improved criminal pathology technical capabilities, there should be ample time to discover if someone sentence to death is actually innocent of his/her crime.
 
Saw this, thought pieces of it would be relevant to this conversation. It has bright colors too.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/documents/FactSheet.pdf

From that site this would be my beef with the death penalty, it's just to costly. Cheaper to lock them up and throw away the key I think but then again if the offender is young the cost of life in prison cost tax payers a lot too.

"A new study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978.
Study considered pre-trial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal
habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011).
• In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual
costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban
Institute, 2008).
• In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of
incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003).
• Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers
with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost
of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per
execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial
 
Why don't you leave if you don't like it here. I think we would get along just fin without you. :2wave:


Now I'm gonna stay forever...just to keep you informed on what's going on here...and elsewhere.
 
From that site this would be my beef with the death penalty, it's just to costly. Cheaper to lock them up and throw away the key I think but then again if the offender is young the cost of life in prison cost tax payers a lot too.

"A new study in California revealed that the cost of the death penalty in the state has been over $4 billion since 1978.
Study considered pre-trial and trial costs, costs of automatic appeals and state habeas corpus petitions, costs of federal
habeas corpus appeals, and costs of incarceration on death row. (Alarcon & Mitchell, 2011).
• In Maryland, an average death penalty case resulting in a death sentence costs approximately $3 million. The eventual
costs to Maryland taxpayers for cases pursued 1978-1999 will be $186 million. Five executions have resulted. (Urban
Institute, 2008).
• In Kansas, the costs of capital cases are 70% more expensive than comparable non-capital cases, including the costs of
incarceration. (Kansas Performance Audit Report, December 2003).
• Enforcing the death penalty costs Florida $51 million a year above what it would cost to punish all first-degree murderers
with life in prison without parole. Based on the 44 executions Florida had carried out since 1976, that amounts to a cost
of $24 million for each execution. (Palm Beach Post, January 4, 2000).
• The most comprehensive study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million per
execution over the costs of sentencing murderers to life imprisonment. The majority of those costs occur at the trial

The part you pointed out I did not know until I read the FAQ. It seems counter intuitive to me. Food, Electricity, Guards, Benefits for the Guards, Health, Dental all seem to add up. I did not think the trials were as expensive as the estimates show. Interesting.
 
There's been like 800 plus more who have been executed in Texas going back to the early 1800's. So Texas loves killing people...so much that the state government is hell bent on trying to stop abortions in Texas. You may have noticed that my last sentence made no sense at all. When it comes to death...Texas government has selective ethics.

You can shoot, stab, electrocute...give lethal injections, hang people...but oh don't think about abortion.

Innocent Baby vs. Convicted Felon?
 
Innocent Baby vs. Convicted Felon?

I believe the word "innocent applies to those who are involved in behaviors. In order to be innocent one must participate in some form of empirical experience, which evidence leads to charging one's behavior with the allegation that he or she is guilty, but then exonerated from such an allegation.

My comment was related to Texas government's strange, selective ethics when it comes to death.
 
The part you pointed out I did not know until I read the FAQ. It seems counter intuitive to me. Food, Electricity, Guards, Benefits for the Guards, Health, Dental all seem to add up. I did not think the trials were as expensive as the estimates show. Interesting.

Six one way, half a dozen the other maybe.
 
I believe the word "innocent applies to those who are involved in behaviors. In order to be innocent one must participate in some form of empirical experience, which evidence leads to charging one's behavior with the allegation that he or she is guilty, but then exonerated from such an allegation.

My comment was related to Texas government's strange, selective ethics when it comes to death.

Yep, you are from Austin. Your comment is senseless. An unborn child has done nothing to offend society. The killing of that unborn child for convenience is simply murder, infanticide. Evidently a hard concept for you and others.
 
I believe the word "innocent applies to those who are involved in behaviors. In order to be innocent one must participate in some form of empirical experience, which evidence leads to charging one's behavior with the allegation that he or she is guilty, but then exonerated from such an allegation.

My comment was related to Texas government's strange, selective ethics when it comes to death.

I get that you were commenting on their "selective ethics". I don't see it that way. In fact, I think it is a very understandable argument for someone to be Pro-Life and Pro Capital Punishment.

A unborn baby has committed no crime. A convicted felon on death row has been accused and found guilty and sentenced.

Under the definition you provide...when does a child become involved in behaviors? Newborns are hardly functioning. Are they involved in a behavior? If so, a fetus that kicks when the mother eats spicy food is involved in a behavior as well.
 
Now I'm gonna stay forever...just to keep you informed on what's going on here...and elsewhere.

Thank you, there is plenty of room here for both of us. Please do keep me informed, all information can be useful, both the real and the false.
 
I get that you were commenting on their "selective ethics". I don't see it that way. In fact, I think it is a very understandable argument for someone to be Pro-Life and Pro Capital Punishment.

A unborn baby has committed no crime. A convicted felon on death row has been accused and found guilty and sentenced.

Under the definition you provide...when does a child become involved in behaviors? Newborns are hardly functioning. Are they involved in a behavior? If so, a fetus that kicks when the mother eats spicy food is involved in a behavior as well.

Blue...with all due respect...this isn't a topic for this forum. I was making my comment as a metaphor. I live in Texas, born and breed and will most likely die here. That said, we have, in my opinion, a very radical state legislature and governor, all of whom I consider to be extremists and tyrants. I see their behaviors...when it comes to the topic of "death"...to be virtually an oxymoron.

Thanks...
 
Blue...with all due respect...this isn't a topic for this forum. I was making my comment as a metaphor. I live in Texas, born and breed and will most likely die here. That said, we have, in my opinion, a very radical state legislature and governor, all of whom I consider to be extremists and tyrants. I see their behaviors...when it comes to the topic of "death"...to be virtually an oxymoron.

Thanks...

I was thinking that too. Would you like to continue it in a proper forum?
 
I wonder how many of them were actually innocent. 12 inmates who were convicted and sentenced to death in Texas were later found to be innocent and released. Can anyone really feel certain that none of those 500 were innocent, too?
Were those 12 'innocent' or was the evidence found to be less conclusive than originally thought? Iabsolutely agree there should be a higher standard for a capital punishment sentence. Then again...if those sentenced were 'just' given life sentences, would they have stayed on anyones radar long enough for them to care or be exhonerated?
 
I was thinking that too. Would you like to continue it in a proper forum?

Well, actually...that forum is one in which I'm the most active. But I think you'd find a number of other folks who are regular posters there...on both sides of the issue who would be happy for you to join in. But I would say that your perspective is one that you and I would simply disagree with in virtually every way we could make engage in our specific arguments...and walk away with neither having resolved our differences.

But thanks for the offer. Pop in though...
 
Blue...with all due respect...this isn't a topic for this forum. I was making my comment as a metaphor. I live in Texas, born and breed and will most likely die here. That said, we have, in my opinion, a very radical state legislature and governor, all of whom I consider to be extremists and tyrants. I see their behaviors...when it comes to the topic of "death"...to be virtually an oxymoron.

Thanks...

I too live in Texas. Graduated from Harlingen High School long ago, I don't view either the governor nor the state legislature as being radical, extremists or tyrants. Unless, of course, you are speaking of Wendy Davis.
 
I too live in Texas. Graduated from Harlingen High School long ago, I don't view either the governor nor the state legislature as being radical, extremists or tyrants. Unless, of course, you are speaking of Wendy Davis.

Surprise, surprise, surprise....!
 
Were those 12 'innocent' or was the evidence found to be less conclusive than originally thought? Iabsolutely agree there should be a higher standard for a capital punishment sentence. Then again...if those sentenced were 'just' given life sentences, would they have stayed on anyones radar long enough for them to care or be exhonerated?

Several of the ones I read about involved one of the key witnesses actually being the perpetrator. And prosecutorial misconduct all around. But no, it wasn't a matter of "getting off on a technicality", they were all exonerated. Which means the court, upon review, concluded that they were innocent.

Shows how careful we are before executing anyone, the system works. By the way they most were not proven innocent they were proven not guilty. Huge difference.

No, it shows how the system doesn't work! Texas was all set to execute these 12 people, and only a lot of outside intervention prevented the murder of innocent people by the state. But you don't know how many of these 500 were actually guilty. You don't know how many slipped through the cracks. And as Danarhea said, one is too many. Why so gung ho about state sanctioned murder?

That's why there is 15 to 18 yrs. for the appeals process.

And no we can't be sure.

And since we can't be sure, how can we risk killing an innocent person?
 
Several of the ones I read about involved one of the key witnesses actually being the perpetrator. And prosecutorial misconduct all around. But no, it wasn't a matter of "getting off on a technicality", they were all exonerated. Which means the court, upon review, concluded that they were innocent.



No, it shows how the system doesn't work! Texas was all set to execute these 12 people, and only a lot of outside intervention prevented the murder of innocent people by the state. But you don't know how many of these 500 were actually guilty. You don't know how many slipped through the cracks. And as Danarhea said, one is too many. Why so gung ho about state sanctioned murder?



And since we can't be sure, how can we risk killing an innocent person?
It would be interesting to have discussion on those cases. Virtually EVERY thread on this site that has involved opposition to the death penalty involves some poor misguided illegal imigrant that surely wouldnt have bashed in 2 girls heads with a rock had he not been brought to the US when he was 2 so really...it was the countries fault. Oh...and the recent Baltimore case where the guy killed 4 people but there was a 'question' of his possible innocense because even though he admitted it to a firend, was caught with the murder weapon and blood evidence there was a foreign hair in one of the victims car and that COULD have maybe come from the 'real' killer...
 
I am against capital punishment no matter what the crime.

If Hitler was found alive (and 124 years old) I would still be against killing him.
 
We don't hang folks in Texas BTW.

Maybe we should. Public hangings might just help deter future criminals better. People used to be afraid of being hung, haven't heard of a lot of people afraid of lethal injection. But then, when we used hanging, we also executed a lot more murderers, etc. Wasn't none of this "special circumstances" bs. Murder is Murder, if not, then it is manslaughter, we don't execute for that, so if you commit murder, then the death penalty should always be available as an option. I personally think it should be there for rapist and several other types of hideous crimes.

As to cost, that is only a problem because the state has to provide qualified defense lawyers and expanded procedures. A simple way to handle that would be not to allow anyone who cannot handle a death penalty case qualify to be a criminal lawyers under the BAR. All defense attorneys would then be qualified and we wouldn't have to spend extra money hiring "special" ones.
 
Wrong, it's about taking out the trash.

It's an enormous responsibility, holding the power of life and death. Your faith and trust in the government is inspiring.
 
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