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Thread: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The primary purpose of the marriage contract is to deal with property and next of kin issues.
    You keep repeating that. And it's still not any more true than it was the first time you said it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    You keep repeating that. And it's still not any more true than it was the first time you said it.
    So what is the purpose then?

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    That's right, but you can't divorce that primary purpose from the reasoning of marriage without actually redefining it's purpose by disposing of the cornerstone.
    Who is "divorcing" it? How does SSM change procreation?
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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    We'll find out if and when homosexuals successfully get a case in front of the supreme court challenging the actual definition of marriage in states. The PURPOSE of marriage will be hashed out at that time, as well as whether or not the state that sanctions marriage has the right to define it. Don't hold your breath, though, because that's not happening tomorrow.
    It has already been "hashed out" a number of times over the last few years, and it has failed in many of those cases. It will continue to fail using procreation ability as a defense of restrictions on marriage due to sex/gender because it simply is not applied equally. And in fact, if laws were ever pushed to limit marriage to only procreative couples, including opposite sex couples, such laws would be struck down as well because they simply do not have any standing in law because the purpose of marriage is not legally procreation.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It has already been "hashed out" a number of times over the last few years, and it has failed in many of those cases. It will continue to fail using procreation ability as a defense of restrictions on marriage due to sex/gender because it simply is not applied equally. And in fact, if laws were ever pushed to limit marriage to only procreative couples, including opposite sex couples, such laws would be struck down as well because they simply do not have any standing in law because the purpose of marriage is not legally procreation.
    OK. Well, good luck with that. If you want to have a same-sex marriage, there are about a dozen states you can move to that agree with you and will let you do it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    OK. Well, good luck with that. If you want to have a same-sex marriage, there are about a dozen states you can move to that agree with you and will let you do it.
    I don't want to be in a same sex marriage, since I'm already in an opposite sex marriage and I'm heterosexual.

    But those who do want to be in a same sex marriage should not be forced to move to a different state and stay there just because some do not want to understand that restrictions against same sex marriage do not further any legitimate state interest and therefore are unconstitutional. And there are those in same sex marriages or who soon may be who have no real choice where they live because of their job and obligations.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    So what is the purpose then?
    Since you're struggling to understand what "state sanctioned marriage" means, let's start out with a basic definitions.

    Sanction: noun. approval - approbation - endorsement - authorization

    State Sanctioned marriage is for the purpose of approving a pairing and confirming that it makes biological sense. That's why important restrictions to marriage have historically included things like incest, fatal venereal diseases, blood types that are incompatible for producing children and, of course, same sex partners. Marriage is official approval and endorsement of a pairing that is not biologically illogical.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Since you're struggling to understand what "state sanctioned marriage" means, let's start out with a basic definitions.

    Sanction: noun. approval - approbation - endorsement - authorization

    State Sanctioned marriage is for the purpose of approving a pairing and confirming that it makes biological sense. That's why important restrictions to marriage have historically included things like incest, fatal venereal diseases, blood types that are incompatible for producing children and, of course, same sex partners. Marriage is official approval and endorsement of a pairing that is not biologically illogical.

    Then why doesn't the contract say that if that is it's purpose?

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Since you're struggling to understand what "state sanctioned marriage" means, let's start out with a basic definitions.

    Sanction: noun. approval - approbation - endorsement - authorization

    State Sanctioned marriage is for the purpose of approving a pairing and confirming that it makes biological sense. That's why important restrictions to marriage have historically included things like incest, fatal venereal diseases, blood types that are incompatible for producing children and, of course, same sex partners. Marriage is official approval and endorsement of a pairing that is not biologically illogical.
    Except you're wrong because the state in no way confirms that a couple entering into marriage "makes biological sense". That simply isn't true. Two people who enter into marriage who know they cannot have children but are of the opposite sex still, by your definition, would not "make biological sense", since they cannot have children with each other. In some cases, opposite sex couples have to in fact prove that they cannot have children together in order to legally marry.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SCOTUS blog: DOMA Unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I don't want to be in a same sex marriage, since I'm already in an opposite sex marriage and I'm heterosexual.

    But those who do want to be in a same sex marriage should not be forced to move to a different state and stay there just because some do not want to understand that restrictions against same sex marriage do not further any legitimate state interest and therefore are unconstitutional. And there are those in same sex marriages or who soon may be who have no real choice where they live because of their job and obligations.
    See, that is the "compassionate" argument and the only one that I find sympathetic. I don't agree that marriage makes any sense at all for homosexuals outside of the argument for what have come to be deemed reasonable benefits and state protections for committed partners. That's the real dilemma and not just for me, but for a lot of people. It's not marriage, but there is a compassionate side to this that is compelling. People typically want to help others. I'm just not certain marriage should come up on the "re-engineering" table in order to meet the goals of providing a legal framework for relationships that are not biologically sensible.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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